Refund and New

[ShawnsHATS]

Hi. My last two orders the buyer purchased and as soon as the person bought they asked for a refund. I’m new and confused by the finance part. I’ll do best I can to explain. I never shipped or purchased the label. First person I pressed the cancel button but instead of my account being at 0 like I imagined null and void as If the purchase never happened, I later was charged $4.18. First person I know just was concerned the order would not get to them in the time they wanted based on the estimate it showed him once he bought it.  

Second person I think is scamming. I could be wrong. You tell me. I get the purchase but then very soon afree another person contacts me private message that isn’t the buyer. They say pay pal emailed them of the purchase but that it wasn’t them. That someone stole their credit card basically. But pay pal I do not believe has private info of Etsy like who the seller and order # etc. Because she herself had a Etsy account and found me fast. I told her that I needed to contact Etsy. She then sent me a picture showing that Pay Pal emailed her and showed they gave her a full refund. So if pay pal refunded her and she is supposedly getting “new cards” and canceling the one that was used for the purchase, then why is she asking for another refund from Etsy or me or however it works I still don’t fully understand?? If she is supposedly canceling the card then how will refund get to the card she used on file with Etsy through me? And again she was refunded by Pay Pal fully $94 which was the amount she paid. I also found it weird the buyer bought the most expensive shipping label that I was supposed to buy at $26. Shipping a few states over. I feel this person is trying to get refunded twice somehow. Already once by Pay Pal. They Paid for most expensive shipping to get more refund money I believe. Cause shipping for the item is usually around $4 and gets there in a couple days. 

And I don’t understand the finance part. Say she spent $94. Whatever fees are taken out taxes and Etsy and price of hat and money for shipping goes to me so I can in return buy the label, that money if goes to my account “available for deposit” I can imagine I press cancel and the money gets shipped back and it’s back to 0 null and void. But last refund I was charged $4.18 somehow. And I’m concerned not only is this a scam but my unfamiliarity and the weirdness of the numbers I will be charged the full refund when in my account right now it is showing 0 in “available for deposit”. It is showing $81 and change under “activities”. Which $81 doesn’t make sense when the buyers full purchase was $94. 

I’ve tried talking to Etsy chat and it was like they didn’t want to even talk. Cause it shouldn’t be this complicated. They told me the person did a “charge back” but in my dashboard I was never notified or emailed. Yes in private message was asked for refund. But in my account it says 0 for deposit. So how can I refund plus I feel it’s a scam. 

when you do refunds how exactly do you do it to not get charged? 

[TinTeddy]

" I later was charged $4.18."  When one issues a refund, Etsy first of all takes the fund from any balance you have on your Etsy account.

If you don't have enough money available in your Etsy account, they then charge the rest to your credit card.  So you only pay back what was originally paid to you by the customer, no more.  Your selling fees are returned to you once you cancel the order.

"..another person contacts me private message that isn’t the buyer"  You must never discuss an order with anyone other than the person who made the order.

I am sorry, but I couldn't really understand the rest of your post, I got muddled trying to picture what happened

[Former_Member]

By listing brand new 'Von Dutch™' merchandise as 'handmade' you are leaving yourself open to scammers who could claim NAD (not as described) and end up keeping both the merch and their refund... or being shut down all together.

Probably best to go on vacation mode and have a quick look at Etsy's TOU's for what can and can not be sold on Etsy.

[ShawnsHATS]

Mr Tid Bit 

what is the solution? It asked for tons of info that I could not figure out. Like the supplier or whatever. I don’t know all that information. 

[BagmakerSupply]

@ShawnsHATS: It sounds like you first need to read https://www.etsy.com/legal/policy/reselling/239324376512

[VintageRescueSquad]

@ShawnsHATS You cannot sell brand new Von Dutch hats on etsy and say they are handmade. Etsy is only for handmade (or designed by) you, vintage (20+ years old) or supplies.

I suspect what is happening is that people are scamming you, knowing that they will get refunds. They are targeting a new shop that is breaking the rules.

Deactivate all those listings. I also couldn't follow much of what you initially posted about, but the $4.18 is the least of your worries.

[ShawnsHATS]

You say not to talk to people who aren’t the buyer. That is what is weird. I think this person is a pro scammer. They say they weren’t the buyer. But they got a hold of me on Etsy somehow saying that it was their stolen credit card that bought the hat. 

they then sent me picture in messages showing pay pal fully refunded them. And that they have canceled that credit card that bought from me. Yet I was told by Etsy the person I’m guessing the real buyer did a charge back or the person who messaged me did somehow because it was her credit card. It’s crazy and is totally sus. But if that person who had their card stolen canceled the card then how can they get a refund on it? Plus the original buyer who supposedly stole the card it makes no sense they would make the order and then do a quick “charge back” with their stolen credit card. They would use the card to make purchases. 

and they paid $26 for a shipping label that is expedited which is the fastest there is yet immediately they want a refund. The buyer and who messaged me this is a scam trying to get twice refunded. 

how do I resolve this without being charged? It is showing up I have an open order but I have no funds available. The order total was $94 but it’s saying I have $81 in “activities” but can’t use any of it. The math on Etsy is weird and makes no sense to me. 

[ShawnsHATS]

I seen many Von Dutch hats being resold on Etsy. So instead of handmade what do I do? Cause I have seen many many new hats of all sorts and Nike shoes etc being resold on Etsy. 

[UniqueGiftOrnaments]

@ShawnsHATS    It doesn't matter about others selling the hats. Eventually they will be caught. We can only sell handmade, vintage and supplies. Selling someone else's design is just plain stealing.

[BootifulLabels]

The point we are making is ETSY does not allow reselling of commercial products here. 

It doesn't matter how many others you see doing it, they are breaking the rules too and will eventually be caught.  You see plenty of people speeding, shoplifting, breaking into homes and cars too, some may get away with it for a time, but most are eventually caught.  Does that mean that if you do it, and get caught, the cops should let you off because others are doing it too?  Good luck with that.

You need to rethink your business plan on Etsy.  You have now come to the attention of the forums, and through the reporting system you will soon come to the attention of Etsy.  Repeat offences will get your shop closed, and that means a permanent ban, you can never sell here again.  

[ShawnsHATS]

And I never shipped the hat. Both times they purchased and asked to be cancelled like right after they purchased 

[sharonjenkins1]

Best advice is to straighten out these orders, then deactivate your items and read about what is allowed to be sold here.  Again, it’s handmade by you, vintage at least 20 years old, and craft supplies.  No reselling regardless of what you see in other shops. And no, it’s not a gestapo, it’s Etsy rules for what can be sold.  Yes, you will see resellers here which will eventually be taken down.  Look harder and you will see handmade, vintage and supplies.

[MarjVintageTouch]

But his shop items were advertised as vintage before 2000's.  Von Dutch was founded 1999.  Vintage could be brand new and never worn.  He might be fine with this issue. 

[VintageRescueSquad]

@MarjVintageTouch They are certainly not "handmade" as he states in his listing.

UPDATE: Clearly changed to "vintage before 2003" now

[Jewels2at]

@MarjVintageTouch 

@ShawnsHATSall but said they were reselling because others were doing it on Etsy.

[UniqueGiftOrnaments]

@ShawnsHATS   It doesn't matter what others are doing. You should be concerned with just you. How would you feel if you had a special design, made money on it, then others stole your design and made money off of your creation?? 

[BootifulLabels · Accepted solution]

As a new shop, the funds from each order you receive do not become available for 3 days after the sale, but Etsy takes its fees right away.  If you need to cancel and refund in that time, there may not be sufficient available funds in the account to cover the refund.  If this is the case, Etsy will use whatever funds are available in your account, and bill your credit card for the balance.  Once the cancellation goes through , Etsy refunds all the fees for the sale, and the original funds from the sale become available at the end of the three days so you will end up square.

 As for the second situation you describe, if the person contacting you is NOT the same person who purchased, IE they are contacting you from a different account, simply tell them you cannot deal with anyone but the owner of the account on the order.  

Lastly, @Former_Member  is correct.  You are not allowed to list commercially made items on Etsy.  They must be handmade by you, vintage (20 yrs old or more) or craft supplies, which Von Dutch are not.  You need to find another venue for these, one that allows reselling of new commercial items.

[AAANativeArts]

If they ask for a refund and you haven't shipped yet, just Cancel the order. All fees will eventually be returned to you. The customer gets their refund, it is as if it never happened.

You can only discuss an order with the person who purchased it. If someone says it was fraud, tell them to contact Etsy. Etsy handles all finances. It is their responsibility to screen for fraud. If it is indeed fraud, Etsy will cancel the sale. So wait a couple days before you ship that order to see if Etsy cancels it.

Use Refund instead of Cancel if you are only giving a partial refund for some reason. That's all you really need to know.

Sometimes scammers with stolen credit cards ask for expedited shipping so they can get the goods before the real cardholder finds out and cancels it.

Paypal does send you a message when you buy anything with your Paypal account. So you are aware quickly if there is something you didn't purchase. The scammer probably paid with Paypal rather than a credit card directly. That is why Paypal was involved. With Paypal you can use all major credit cards, or the money in your Paypal account, or you can have them take it from your real  world checking account. Just have the card owner refer any suspected fraud to Etsy and don't ship right away until Etsy has time to deal with it.

[timelapse]

"Vast majority of Etsy is people reselling their goods they buy or use."

sad state of affairs on Etsy when this is how the world views it......

[VintageRescueSquad]

That is not true that the "vast majority" are resellers. Yes, there are a lot because etsy doesn't vet items prior to listing. What you do not see is the thousands of shops that are shut down permanently and banned. What you don't apparently see is all those sellers coming to the forums once they have scam buyers purchase then open a case for "not as described" (i.e., not handmade, as advertised) that resulted in the buyer keeping the item and getting their money back. What you don't see is the trademark holders coming after those sellers for monetary damages and court costs.

The reality is that you may get away with it for a while, but it will catch up with you. There are other sites where you CAN sell these items. Why not sell there instead? Why choose a site that is predominantly handmade and vintage?

[bradgoodell]

Accurately stated.  Kudos.

[MarjVintageTouch]

@VintageRescueSquad  Sorry, I'm in an out the forum that sometimes I missed a lot of posts.  I don't see "Hand Made" but "Vintage before 2000's".  Maybe they were changed? 

[audreytherese]

They definitely changed it. They were listed as handmade when I reported them hours ago. 

[MarjVintageTouch]

Hmmm.  Still learning how to post.  Sorry for the misplaced responses.

[OmasFabricStash]

You can go back and fix the typos for 1 hour.