Etsy store suspension imminent

[#1]

Hi Everyone i'm reaching out on here as i have tried live chat and emailed etsy directly. But i'm either getting standard generic replies or no reply.

I have been selling on etsy for nearly 8 years and have shipped 35k orders in that time. Yet this month i keep getting hit with creativity policy removals and i'll be honest i don't know what i'm doing wrong. My store just got the dreaded 1 more violation and my store will be banned email.

The main items i sell are vintage patent print i recently had a creativity policy removal for a set of 3 drummer related patents from the 1920-30s please note that old patent documents and drawings are public domain and are not protected by copyright restrictions. 

As the email from etsy is so generic i have no clue what the reason why the item was removed i'm thinking its either the use of mockups or the category made by or designed by is not correct at the moment my products are under the made by category.

I have always used mockups to display my artwork as it can be hard to take really good photos. I'm sure a lot of you have tried this yourself but to be honest they will usually never look as good as some of the mockups. Getting good lighting and setting can be hard unless you get a professional company in to take photos. I do create my own videos though for my artwork which look okay. 

The mockups i use are all edited by me personally using my artwork that i have created. I have not just gone online and downloaded other sellers pictures and put them on my store, Many of these prints i've been selling for nearly 8 years. And i'm fully aware that my images have been stolen thousands of times over the years and used by sellers on various platforms. Small family businesses are unable to police stuff like this, if large corporations are unable to do it. How can it be expected that tiny businesses like many of us on here to do it. We don't have legal teams and if we did they would probably cost more than our entire profits each year. Do i need to take photos myself for all of my products photos on etsy?

If it's not the mockup issue is it the category my products are listed under is incorrect? at the moment mine are in the made by me category should it be designed by or maybe one of the other categories? 

Please note all of my products have been created by me on my computer, they are all printed by me in my studio and then packaged and shipped by me we don't use a third party for any of my items. Etsy please let me know which categories my products should be in? Especially if this is why my products are getting hit for creativity policy violations.

Any advice from the community or etsy would be greatly appreciated as i don't know what to do. I started this business 8 years ago on the side to my full time job as a carer and within 2 years i was able to give up my job and do this what i love full time. Now i can't help but think that i'm about to lose everything i've worked for and all etsy are doing is sending me generic pre written replies. This is my families livelihood i'm a father of 4 i have put everything into etsy to make it a success. All i want is some transparency from the etsy support team as to what i'm doing wrong. This store is literally my whole life if it were to get banned i would most likely be in a position where i would lose our family home.

Sorry if this all looks a bit of a mess i typed this on my phone. The stress of this is pushing me edge mentally as i feel my world is about to collapse. I have no idea how i can some assistance from etsy before my store is closed. I hope someone from etsy sees this message as live chat and emails have been no help at all so far.

Many Thanks

Gaz

[BagmakerSupply]

@MagicPosters: Vintage refers to when the physical item was made. A print of the Mona Lisa made 25 years ago can be sold on Etsy, an identical print made yesterday of the same painting cannot. https://www.etsy.com/legal/policy/vintage-items-on-etsy/242665563649

[MagicPosters]

I wouldn't really class 20 years old as vintage my sons 22 years old he's certainly not vintage. I think you know what i mean by vintage prints im talking over 60 years old. I would rather not dance around the question with you nineteen, as i would really like to hear from etsy can vintage prints be sold on etsy of old drawings, patents or botanical drawings and even of old paintings as like i said that other seller has nearly half a million sales on etsy and that is what they sell? 

This will there livelihood just like mine and i know there will be other sellers who sell items similar to me who would like to know the answer too. I have personally reached out to some stores myself asking there concerns on if we can sell these type of prints.

[nineteen27]

it is etsy who says vintage is 20 years or older.

not me.

and etsy is not going to answer your question in the forum.

i like dancing.

so i will dance my way out of this thread.

[vintageNCtreasures]

It doesn't matter what you classify vintage as, 20 years or older is Etsy's definition of vintage.

You're NOT the designer on those old prints, someone else designed them.
You had "no" part in those designs.

Those reprints you're doing in all sizes are NOT vintage and they'd be considered a "new" item.

What other sellers sell on Etsy is no indication that they're following the rules or what is allowed to be sold here. 

Just look at all the "Handmade" Disney, NFL, cartoon, famous people and other trademarked items that are counterfeit.
Yet shops have had 1,000's or 10'000's of sales selling those counterfeit items.

[MagicPosters]

Im not just reprinting vintageNCtreasures theres a lot of editing that goes into the patents i think because you don't sell in the artwork category you will not quite understand. It's not until you step back and look you'll see that everything apart from totally hand drawn items or paintings is using some form of other image or something created by someone else. whether it be some writing on a print they didn't the create the font. A personalised map print the person did not create the map they just put it on the page along with some text. 

Please search for prints on etsy and you will see what i'm talking about.

[CraftyCornishMaids]

@MagicPosters 

The mockups i use are all edited by me personally

If your items are in the handmade category

your first photo has to be a photo of the actual item, it cannot be a mockup

this, is 100% not a photo you have taken of the item you will send

Video Game 1993 Patent Print Colourised, Gaming Wall Art, Gamer Decor, Bedroom Posters, Dorm Decor, Retro Console Artwork

[MagicPosters]

Hi craftycornish thank you for your reply your totally correct it is a mockup of one of my prints in the image. I will move these to the designed by category. 

I have reached out to etsy regarding which category all of my listings should be listed whether it be patent prints, definition prints, personalised prints. But like i have said no reply.

[CraftyCornishMaids]

@MagicPosters 

did you design it yourself, or did someone else design it,

if it's a patent from 1993, you probably didn't design it

[MagicPosters]

nineteen27 this is the problem i would of not posted on this forum if i could get answers from etsy. I have tried emailing and live chat. All i get is a generic response this is all well and good but this is my livelihood and i can see that loads of sellers are having their lives probably ripped apart. Due to poor lack of communication from etsy you should be able to get a proper response from them its been a month since i was told on live chat their specialist team in this department will get back to. Etsy have no idea the damage they will be caused to peoples real lives by their lack of proper support and over use of ai to implement there policies with no real human support for sellers.

[nineteen27]

and that is why i come here.

to help people when etsy is not doing it.

i searched for a category where you could sell those items.

but i cannot find one.

and even if etsy had responded to you a month ago.

etsy recently changed their policies!

and what items can and cannot be sold here.

and how to list them.

you can sell them on your website and a bazillion other sites...

but i really cannot find a place to list them on etsy.

maybe someone else can.

good luck to you.

[TheatricksFineGarb]

@MagicPosters 

@nineteen27 

I think I found a creative solution for you. If you list and market your reprints as “Party Decor” - decorations for a guitar themed party, or for a yacht sailing event, then you can sell them as Party Supplies !

[nineteen27]

@TheatricksFineGarb 

um.

no... lol

that is creative.

but it is not a party supply.

[CraftyCornishMaids]

The main items i sell are vintage patent print

1, they are not designed by you, if they are someone elses patents

2. they are not handmade by you, even if you just tart them up and print them

3. they are not handpicked by you, as they are not vintage (if you print them, they are new), nature, or gift baskets

4. they are not supplies sourced by you or personalised

this is etsy's creativity standards

https://www.etsy.com/ca/legal/creativity/#made

which of the 4 do you think they belong in, and why?

[MagicPosters]

I don't just sell patent prints I sell quite a few different prints and I'm gonna be honest I don't know the reason why items have been taken down. I've reached out to etsy to ask but they haven't actually said why. If they would reach out to me and tell me why I would be able to move forward and either remove listings or change the way items are listed. Do you not agree that etsy should at least assist a seller when they asked nearly a month ago. 

If you don't agree I really hope you don't have a policy come out that effects your store cause you will struggle to find clarity from etsy on the issue and be at the mercy of their bots to ruin the store you built. 

[CraftyCornishMaids]

@MagicPosters 

for your patent prints, which one of the 4 categories do you think they fit in, and why,

because they don't fit in any

If you could say which category and why, we might be able to explain to you what you are misunderstanding

... etsy just says what, they don't explain why

If you don't agree I really hope you don't have a policy come out that effects your store cause you will struggle to find clarity from etsy on the issue and be at the mercy of their bots to ruin the store you built. 

been there, done that with my bestseller on 2 separate occasions, for 2 different reasons about 18 months apart

don't expect etsy to explain, either work it out yourself, or get people here to help you,

don't just plough on regardless ..... from experience

......

.... the first time it taught me a big lesson and I started selling on Amazon handmade too - best decision I ever made - and the second hit was therefore not nearly as bad as the first, as I had a lot of other income to cushion the blow.

Etsy changes their policies, they can stop showing your items offsite at the drop of a hat (my first hit) and they can stop showing them on etsy (frequency capping) at the drop of a hat
with the frequency capping, which was denied at first, a few of us kept pushing, and they eventually admitted it, and added it to the legal ranking disclosures.

Etsy can change categories and rules, so your items can no longer be sold and/or found here

be ready

[MagicPosters]

I contacted etsy when the ceo released the video with the new rules coming in. So you would think by now I would of had some sort of reply I've also spoke to live chat and sent emails since.

But get the same generic replies. If etsy ever comes out with something that may severely impact your life you will understand. That when you try to reach out to them and get no support or answers after using the platform for 8 years this is simply not good enough look at the forums their have never been so many people complaining of bans or takedowns and they don't know why.

For a company that prides itself on being ethical and a great site for buyers. I think they have lost touch on how to treat its sellers.

I honestly don't think they realise the devastation some of their actions can have on their sellers lives.

[CraftyCornishMaids]

the onus is on you, to make sure which of the 4 categories you can list in, or don't list them

etsy will just point you to the standards

which of the 4 categories do you think they fit in, and why?

[LightLanguage777]

Hi @MagicPosters many people are having similar listing issues at the moment due to Etsy’s use of AI bots to check listings. Our self-published Oracle Deck listing was recently deactivated on Etsy even though my name is on the box as co-author of the product. The issue is that the bots can’t see the context of an item, they just check for certain flags. And Etsy are secretive about what the bots are checking for, they don’t share. So that leaves sellers guessing for the reason(s) of deactivation and everyone seems to have a different opinion about it too. You can see in this topic https://community.etsy.com/t5/Technical-Issues/Unexplained-deactivation-support-needed/td-p/14649236...

[CraftyCornishMaids]

that identical listing was in 2 different shops,

as designed by the seller

 and nether shop was disclosed in the other,

although it was definitely against etsy's policies,

it was not the same issue as the OP

[MagicPosters]

I did see your post. Have etsy told you how to move forward with this or simply said to create a new listing even though you know that the item will probably get taken down again.

[LightLanguage777]

Hi @CraftyCornishMaids I was giving an example of the unclear feedback I got from Etsy. And how everyone seems to have a different opinion about these issues as Etsy leaves us in the dark. Your reply is a perfect example.

My understanding is that my listing is allowed within the policies though, I haven’t seen any proof that it’s not. 

[LightLanguage777]

@MagicPosters they were very kind on the chat but it wasn’t completely useful. They sent me to the forums, but everyone here is guessing too. So I’m not really getting anywhere yet.

Yes they advised me to make a new listing of the same thing too, both on chat and in the support ticket. Pretty useless, as long as I don’t know the cause of deactivation, it will just happen again if I make a new listing.

[MagicPosters]

So your understanding is that  vintage prints can't be sold on etsy? I did link a seller that had made nearly half a million sales on etsy do you think this seller should just go hey I can't see where my prints fit in with there policies I should close my store lose my house etc. Or do you think they should be able to reach out to etsy and get an answer? 

That's all I'm trying to do I've been selling on here for 8 years just a simple yes or no from etsy would be great.

[vintageNCtreasures]

Yes, vintage prints CAN be sold on Etsy as long as they're the original prints and 20 years old or older.

The problem you can't seem to understand is you are NOT selling vintage prints.

You're selling "new" prints of vintage designs that you didn't design.
Touching them up doesn't count as you designing them.

These items do not fit into either of the 4 categories that @CraftyCornishMaids posted above.

Etsy is not going to give you an answer, they expect you to go by the rules on their site.

[MagicPosters]

Lightlanguage that's the issue there is no feedback from etsy and loads of sellers are experiencing the same issue. 

And some people on these forums obviously haven't had to contact etsy for something that has a big impact on their store. But believe me at some point they will do I've been here 8 years and seen alot in that time.