Etsy are once again removing my listings which belong to me.

[#1]

To start with I am sorry to be back here posting again unfortunately I am going around in circles.

I have been selling on Etsy for over three years. I have multiple images stolen from my shop and published online. I have messaged Etsy with this information plus IPR reports of listings stolen on Ali Express. And originally images including meta data. 

My listings are yet again being deactivated. My items fall into the following category 

Hand assembled items: Commercially available supplies or components that a seller attached together or combined by hand to create a unique end-product.

E.g. Using jewellery-making tools to attach charms to a necklace chain; sewing patches onto a denim jacket

So why are my listings still being deactivated. I shouldn't be made to be the guilty party due to sites stealing my photos.

Etys have reactivated my listings once and are now deactivating them again daily.

Let me be clear on how much stress this is causing me as an individual.

This needs looking into ASAP. 

[CraftyCornishMaids]

to create a unique end-product.

I think the problem is that they are not unique, people are selling what looks like identical things, on other websites.

Some are not your photos, they are probably their items and photos.

but you have not made anything unique with the items. 

[PWOriginals]

@CraftyCornishMaids 

If bots are interpreting what "unique" is, they are going to be taking down tons of other products - especially in the POD category. How many ",la" (for Kamala) and "Mama" t-shirts are out there using the same font? There's absolutely nothing unique about the same POD graphics everywhere.

When I do a reverse image search, it focuses on the item, not the background (altho sometimes it can't find the item in busy pics).

I don't have an answer for any of this mess.

You can point to sellers all you want for a lack of "uniqueness," but what they are doing is totally Etsy legal.

[CraftyCornishMaids]

Etsy says they have to be unique

they aren't

there is a lot of everything being taken down at the moment - pod included

[PWOriginals]

@CraftyCornishMaids 

Etsy did not elaborate on what "unique" meant.

Hand assembled items: Commercially available supplies or components that a seller attached together or combined by hand to create a unique end-product.

E.g. Using jewelry-making tools to attach charms to a necklace chain; sewing patches onto a denim jacket

While I may agree that there are thousands of look-alike products in many categories on Etsy, I don't see how Etsy can "explain" that to a bot while following their own loosely-defined rules.

[CraftyCornishMaids]

@PWOriginals 

it's very easy for a bot

it's not unique, if they can find the same thing, somewhere else

....

so if you but a charm on a chain, or charm on an earring, and someone else does the same thing, it doesn't matter if it qualifies for the putting together bit, it still doesn't qualify under the unique,

it does say charmS to a necklace, the more you put on as a selection together, you have more chance of it being unique .... you might still find you are copied, but there's less chance, the more design you put into it.
and, if you hand wire wrap a stone, the more design you put into the wrapping, the more chance it will be unique

[PWOriginals]

@CraftyCornishMaids 

If Etsy is now judging "no uniqueness" or "very similar to" in their removal of products, they need to explain that to the vast array of sellers who have been following the hand-assembled rules for years and years.

You're focusing on that ONE word, "unique," in that paragraph to justify that these sellers can now have items removed.

Yes, sellers who fall into this category already know what they're selling may not always be necessarily "unique," but they've been successfully allowed to do that on Etsy.

Sometimes the seller is using a different ear attachment on that charm, and the pictures are not the same, and Etsy is taking down the listing because it's too "similar?"

Would you want to be the judge of what is unique enough to qualify on Etsy?

Better yet, wouldn't it be nice if Etsy actually explained what they're looking at now?

[CraftyCornishMaids]

@PWOriginals 

Etsy changed a lot of what could and couldn't be sold here,
and re-arranged what was left, into 4  categories, rather than 3, most of which have different rules from before, some more strict, and some less strict,

this one definitely says

Hand assembled items: Commercially available supplies or components that a seller attached together or combined by hand to create a unique end-product.

.... it doesn't say to create an end product, 

that's new wording, it says - UNIQUE - pay attention to it, as it was done deliberately, and is in the legal section.

.....

they are pushing unique, they want unique

Our platform is the go-to destination for personalised gifts, practical everyday items, and unique wares that can’t be found on a shop floor. Whether it's home, style, or gifts – Etsy has it. The special, handmade detail. The thing you're looking for but didn’t know you could find on Etsy. The feeling of entering a whole new world of inspiration, full of unique creations just waiting to be discovered.

[ChantillyAvenue]

@CraftyCornishMaids  @PWOriginals 

I have to agree with this.  Josh has mentioned this word specifically more than once.  He stressed it over handmade even.

[PWOriginals]

@CraftyCornishMaids 

I'm well aware of that word, so you don't have to keep pointing it out over and over.

What I'm saying is that Etsy has changed its approach to "uniqueness," and hasn't defined what it means to them.

If you go by the dictionary meaning it's

"unlike anything else."

There is so much "likeness" across the spectrum of Etsy. It never bothered them before. They need to explain.

It doesn't matter what you say, or I say - it's what Etsy's intepretation is of this broad word.

[ChantillyAvenue]

@PWOriginals 

Another factor to consider is that a lot of things start out unique, and when they become popular or set trends, the copying starts en masse.  Once upon a time, this was overlooked by Etsy.  Most sellers would even tell you to ignore the copycats and keep on creating new designs.  And now we are probably seeing those creators 10+ years on, having items they've been selling for years deactivated for not meeting the new Creativity Standards.  And why?  Because they've been copied hundreds, even thousands of times.

[CraftyCornishMaids]

@PWOriginals 

etsy never said anything in the handmade section had to be unique before

now they have hand assembled, part of handmade, it specifically says they have to unique

ignore it at your peril

[digitaldoodlebug]

Etsy has not wanted truly "unique" for a long time. To actually go that route would remove too many listings and therefore too much revenue. If they wanted to be "unique" they would change search to not favor mass sales of the same item and get rid of POD, or at least customized POD where the seller designs nothing. Instead, their new creativity standards differentiated the process and openly welcomes the non handmade POD (including AI).

The truth is etsy uses unique as a marketing word. Just like they do handmade. And keep commerce human. Since they know handmade has a limited appeal their new marketing 101 strategy is to use the word unique. 

Further proof is all the handmade sellers that are getting their items removed. Yes, even very unique handmade sellers. All for the same reason "creativity standards". The simple answer is the bots are matching stolen photos. 

edit they say "We are the marketplace for original items from real people. We stay true to this by connecting buyers with unique items made, designed, handpicked, or sourced by creative sellers around the world." So they're even marketing unique for "sourced" and "handpicked" items. Which includes mass produced supplies and vintage.

Designed by seller has "unique" as a descriptor for 2 of the areas but also includes AI for the 3rd along with their "original" prompts. Just another word they like to use in place of unique. And another example of unique? "A unique dress designed by a seller and reproduced at scale by a production partner" Mass produced by a production partner by the thousands or more isn't exactly unique. But unique is their new trend word since they are shying away from handmade (and handmade can't apply to mass produced production partner).

Or another example complete with photo "A seller’s unique, original design, printed onto a blanket by a production partner;" Which is a basic word layout. Don't get me wrong, I design and thought and time goes into even simple things. But unique is over used by etsy. Or "A unique assortment of dried flowers;" Gift baskets are also "unique". Under sourced by seller "Party supplies: Items whose primary purpose is to decorate a special event, to give it a unique or personal aesthetic." It's obvious etsy's idea of unique is even more broad than it's definition of handmade. 

[PWOriginals]

@CraftyCornishMaids 

You keep insisting that your interpretation of "unique" is the final answer. I gave you the dictionary meaning, which would eliminate a HUGE portion of what is here.

I know you take all the rules quite literally, but this is something that needs Etsy's interpretation so sellers can adapt before having their shops shut down after too many takedowns of products that were previously allowed.

[CraftyCornishMaids]

Unique, in the creativity standards,

is for "hand assembled"

[digitaldoodlebug]

I was direct quoting from the creativity standards page. There are 10 instances of "unique" on that page. Dried flowers, simple text design of a few words, gift baskets, and party supplies are all "unique" just like hand assembled items. So are buyer customized POD that requires no creativity from the seller. "The buyer's unique text or image, produced by a production partner." Which as we know from POD can be as simple as a name or 1 word (such as candles). 

And the example under hand assembled "E.g. Using jewelry-making tools to attach charms to a necklace chain; sewing patches onto a denim jacket". That is going to be the same or very close to many others and is not the normal definition of unique. 

[ChantillyAvenue]

@CraftyCornishMaids 

I don't know.  How many pairs of glass knockoff Columbian Emerald earrings "worn by Angelina Jolie" do we think are out there, just on Etsy?  Seems like the bots would have rather a lot to do before they get around to everything "not unique" around here.  If they wanted to target copycats, for instance, where would their bot even start?  Considering their current track record, most likely with the original artists/designers.  On the other hand, nothing would surprise me.  There's so much happening in plain view that I would once have sworn never would.  I'm not sure there's any way to know what they're doing, I don't even know if they know what's going on or how to stop it. 

[CraftyCornishMaids]

hopefully, when they renew, they will be zapped

[ChantillyAvenue]

@CraftyCornishMaids 

Even with my meager technical knowledge, I can surmise that a bot is incapable of telling the difference between mass-produced reseller items, and those made with the same charms and findings.  I even found some of the charms the seller was using on Aliexpress.  For all we know, they could be finding the charms and counting them as duplicate items.

[GreatStuff80]

I really feel for you. I see so many posts complaining about this every day. I can't imagine how many don't bother to complain here. Etsy knows what places like temu do. They should give you the benefit of the doubt and a chance to prove it BEFORE just trashing your listings. If this is how AI is helping the world, I think I'll pass.

[RebelJewelleryShop]

So I've had a good read through your comments and appreciate your opinions and replys. 

So the majority of products/items out there in the world for sale are all made from commercially available materials and components. What makes the difference is the photos the marketing the price and everything else that goes into selling an item. 

If Etsy want to go down the route of suspending sellers using commercialy available items then I can guarantee they will lose 90% of their sellers. 

This would include pretty much every item across every category. Are not all "Handmade" items made from these types of supply's or are people just digging metals out the ground and smelting them down?

I'm pretty sure all sellers will be using commercially available supplies. 

The issue is the Bot is image matching components of an listing with other components found online. Not even image matching the same photo's just part of them.

Yes my photos have been stolen online and I am doing everything I can to get them removed. But should I be punished for having good photos that sell items. No.

Etsy need to turn off this bot until it's been fine tuned. And have the correct process in place so we can prove that our photos belong to us.

I'm tired of the stress they are causing me daily ... But who will be held accountable. This problem is clearly affecting so many sellers at the moment. We can see this on the forums alone. Etsy are very quick shut these topics down. 

IMO unless Etsy do something drastic with these ai bots it's going to end in disaster. I just wonder if it's even being addressed. I'm sure the shareholders would be concerned!

[cindylouwho2]

@RebelJewelleryShop "If Etsy want to go down the route of suspending sellers using commercialy available items then I can guarantee they will lose 90% of their sellers."

There is no indication that are looking at suspending people just for using commercially-available items. 

What Etsy wants to limit is searches where everything looks similar. So if hundreds of sellers are putting the same commercially-available charm on a chain, Etsy now wants to show only one or two of those on the first page of search. And if Etsy's bots catch that charm on a chain on other sites as well, Etsy may also remove the listings here -  I have seen examples in the past few weeks. 

If you are using that charm in a larger piece with many charms and beads, then there is less of a problem. Your item won't look like everyone one else's. It's the same with knitters who make a complicated item out of commercial yarn. It's not the yarn that is the problem in some searches of knit hats. It is the design of the hats. 

This should not really surprise anyone, as it was one of the reasons they changed the handmade rules to "Creativity Standards". I direct you to comments Josh Silverman made several months back: "All too often, when you visit Etsy, your search is cluttered, showing you too many items that feel very similar…failing to highlight the incredible diversity that is a towering strength for Etsy...understanding how much value did this particular seller truly add to the product. And we’re looking to prioritize items that are really original where the seller really added value and then be able to explain to the buyer exactly where the seller did add value." [my emphasis]  https://seekingalpha.com/article/4688322-etsy-inc-etsy-q1-2024-earnings-call-transcript 

At that time, I suggested sellers might want to do the following: 

• "making your unique contributions evident in the photos and description. If you “add value” to the product, let everyone know that.
• when considering new lines, doing your best not to look like everyone else. Aim to sell that original version that Etsy wants to display as evidence of Etsy’s diversity."

Etsy search is going to continue to evolve, so even if we manage to get changes to the photo bot process, we should expect that shops with a lot of items made of 2-3 common components are going to lose search standing on average. 

Your items and photos look fabulous. You should be able to do well without Etsy if you absolutely have to. But I strongly encourage you to keep fighting, because this ridiculous lack of ability to appeal has to end. 

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