Dispute opened and closed in less than 24 hours and I have been communicating with customer ??

[DeliciousPillows]

I just found a dispute that was opened and closed within 24 hours, etsy issued a refund (taken from my account).  But the only notification I have is email, which I don't check consistently. I got nothing on the dashboard (ZERO disputes in my history).  Nothing in convos.  PLUS the customer and I have been communicating!  I think she accidentally escalated it to a dispute and etsy complied.  However, I haven't gotten the product back or anything.  WTF? How is this fair?  Is this a glitch?

[OneEyeCatStudio]

Unfortunately, there is a lot of this going around.

[CozyWarmCreations]

Etsy's only concern is keeping the customer satisfied so they'll keep spending money on this site.

[DeliciousPillows]

I guess my question is is this normal? I don’t check emails from etsy every day because I get so much spam from them. I figured dispute would be sent to my convos at the very least, no?

[Adorabilities · Accepted solution]

Etsy's refund policy just changed yesterday. So if your situation hadn't been too common before, it's possible that it will be common soon, unfortunately.
With the new policy, refunds should come from Etsy though, not from the shop.

And of course you should have been notified somewhere in your shop -- on the dashboard, in a convo, or at least in your case log.

[CraftyCornishMaids]

this was the old rules

Once a case has been opened, Etsy will usually resolve and close the case automatically on your behalf. Please note that once a case has been opened, Etsy reserves the right to resolve the case on your behalf, including, but not limited to, by issuing a refund to the buyer and recouping funds from your account if payment was made via Etsy payments.

The new ones 

Once a case is opened, Etsy will usually resolve and close the case automatically on behalf of the buyer and seller. Etsy reserves the right to resolve the case on a seller’s behalf, including, but not limited to, by issuing a refund to the buyer and recouping funds from the seller’s account if payment was made via Etsy Payments.

Wherever a qualifying case is escalated for Etsy’s review, we will evaluate the claim to the best of our ability. Please be aware that our case mediation capabilities may be limited for certain types of items, which may result in a refund. Etsy reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to change its original decision based on information obtained after the case was originally evaluated.

.....

nowhere does it say, in the old or new policies, they will ask, or require, the buyer to return the item

.....

so basically, it's done.

[DeliciousPillows]

Yes, i saw that too. My issue is etsy didn’t give me adequate time or notification to resolve the dispute myself.  Especially considering that the customer and I are communicating while etsy is simultaneously “solving it on my behalf”.  

[CraftyCornishMaids]

@DeliciousPillows 

You would have had min 48 hours between them messaging you, and them being able to open a case, as they can't open a case before then

etsy expects it to be resolved before a case is opened

It is a shame they opened a case, if they didn't mean to

but once they open a case, etsy can resolve however they want to - old or new rules aren't any different

[BrooklynStVintage]

So sorry this happened to you. I think it is the tip of the iceberg of problems for sellers. The new policy is very concerning, it appears to be fraught with negative outcomes for the sellers. Are some of the "decision makers" automated responses ? What happens if the buyers opens a case that the item was not delivered but tracking says it was? Has that changed? In my experience, the package is usually found within a couple of days. Is Etsy going to close the case and refund the buyer before then? I have read Etsy will cover the lost package if you meet their requirements... the whole policy has got me holding my breath.

[CraftyCornishMaids]

@BrooklynStVintage 

the old rules and new ones for this are the same, it's nothing to do with the new rules

[BrooklynStVintage]

I have not seen a reference in the new policy for this, do you have a reference for this. It would make me feel better if this stays the same.

thanks

[BrooklynStVintage]

I see the reference that a lost item will be refunded but with a full list of requirements, including the original requirement of tracking. Just don't feel as secure about it as I used to. 

[CraftyCornishMaids]

sellers had to have tracking under the old rules

D. Provide a valid tracking number on the order that shows the order route and delivery progress.

https://www.etsy.com/legal/policy/seller-protection-policy-effective-until/1077756588237?ref=list

[GoldstoneNursery]

Yessss!!!!   Same exact sneaky hand in my pockets trick was pulled on me.  This is getting ridiculous. I'm closing my shop if it continues at all.  I work too hard to have etsy take it from me with no obvious notification and without having my item returned.  That's just theft plain and simple

[CraftyCornishMaids]

@GoldstoneNursery 

you would have had an e-mail from the customer from "purchase and reviews" and you would have had 48 hours to sort it out with them,

after 48 hours from the e-mail, and if it's after the expected delivery date, they can open a case.

Then Etsy will decide whether to refund the buyer, or not,  depending on the criteria for buyer support,
and will decide whether to cover it themselves, or refund from you, depending if you meet the criteria for seller support

...

you don't have the message badge, so are you missing their messages?

you also don't have the ships on time with tracking, which is also another requirement for seller protection.

....

and without having my item returned

you don't accept returns

[GoldstoneNursery]

With all due respect, I wouldn't be complaining if I had ignored her messages and shipped late. I responded to her messages immediately and shipped within my processing time.   I do not accept returns on live plants for obvious reasons but if Etsy is going to refund the purchase out of my account I will make an exception to get my item back.  I just love when people play devils advocate but have no idea what the particulars of a situation are.   If it was reasonable and I failed to do my part I would not have issue being accountable and refunding the buyer.  

[CraftyCornishMaids]

@GoldstoneNursery 

you had 48 hours from the buyers message, from "purchase and reviews" to sort it out with them.
....it shows as "help with order" and is not bundled with other messages, it has it's own message thread

the buyer can only open a case, if it's over 48 hours from that message, and after it's past it's delivery date.

Etsy decided to refunded the buyer, under buyer protection

and etsy did not give you seller protection, for one of the reasons they have in their policies.

.... I was trying to help with which reason it may or may not be.....it could be any of them, there are a few more in the policies section of the handbook

[GoldstoneNursery]

It was not over 48 hours.  Etsy did not review a single thing before granting a refund on a live plant because the color did not match the buyers "decor".  I responded to the buyers concerns immediately and definitely the same day she reached out to me. I do not accept returns because live plants are perishable and would likely sustain significant stress and damage with return shipping.  I do expect the plant return regardless if I decide to grant a refund due to an error on my part.  It is disclosed the plant pictured is an example and you are guaranteed to receive a healthy plant of the same variety  and similar size as the plant pictured.  I do not guarantee the plant will have the exact coloring as the plant pictured as that is not possible.  Etsy allows for no customization of the return policy-either you accept returns or you don't.    Then they decide to refund a buyer on a perishable item without having the item returned for a reason that is invalid for return under my shop policies.  On top of this, they send zero notification that they are doing this on my dashboard but only through my email which is inundated with messages from them.   I'm sorry but there has got to be a better system than allowing a buyer to not be responsible for reading the listing descriptions and shop policies and  keep a live, perishable product I labored to create, pack and ship after essentially taking payment back from me and refunding the buyer.  Oh and to add insult to injury the begonia she gets to keep along her refunded payment is "beautiful" and healthy and just not the right color to match her drapes. 

 You may be an Etsy fan and see no wrong in this activity but by comments in this thread there are a lot of sellers that feel the same way as I do,