What can I do to protect myself as a seller?

[#1]

I know there are no hard and fast rules for seller protection right now. I am assuming this is because you want to be able to deal with each situation on a case by case basis? Will there be rules made available to us at some point? In the case of a transaction going south will you take into account the seller's policies (if they are legal)? Will you be taking into account conversations with the buyer?

I haven't had a problem yet (knock wood), but with the busy holiday season encroaching, I just wanted to know if we would get at least a basic idea of what we need to do to help protect ourselves.

[Former_Member]

Celia fromTheSlyFox says

She didn't say you had to prove delivery, she said you had to prove that you shipped it. So, in this instance, it seems like DC's rules are more lenient than PP's.


Celia,

I see that she indeed said that, but I am not thinking that she would be correct in that statement. It has always been the responsibility of the seller to show delivery of an item to the seller. I am sure we will hear more about this soon. If this was a correct statement, I will be shutting paypal off once and for all, as we are totally better off with DC, especially shipping to countries that do not show tracking.

[TheSlyFox]

Yes, I agree! With some tiered discounts and after we start getting pre-shipment payments, I would be thrilled if someone bought with DC rather than PP.

And? I am thinking that if we ship through DC or enter our delivery confirmation or customs numbers, they should already have our proof of shipment and that is even one less step?

[ohmama]

Celia from TheSlyFox says

She didn't say you had to prove delivery, she said you had to prove that you shipped it. So, in this instance, it seems like DC's rules are more lenient than PP's.
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How does one prove they shipped a package? Is there another way besides delivery confirmation - aka tracking? I must be missing something important here.

[Former_Member]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for keeping this discussion going. I want to add that each dispute is quite nuanced and unique. As such, it's difficult to discuss the hypotheticals in such great detail. The information I previously provided, however, details some pretty good guidelines on how to run your shop. If you ever have questions about a specific dispute, you are always welcome to get in touch with our dedicated team via Etsy Support.

-Ev

[Former_Member]

Evelyn says
Hi everyone,

Thanks for keeping this discussion going. I want to add that each dispute is quite nuanced and unique. As such, it's difficult to discuss the hypotheticals in such great detail. The information I previously provided, however, details some pretty good guidelines on how to run your shop. If you ever have questions about a specific dispute, you are always welcome to get in touch with our dedicated team via Etsy Support.

-Ev

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and still no policy.


I read this conversation with great ups and downs. on page 3 and Still have no idea what to expect if something does occur.

proof of shipment and proof of delivery are pretty definitive things to proove. Why can't Etsy decide?

[QuirkyUniverse]

Even if you resolve it through Etsy and you're not required to refund, the buyer can still open a dispute with their credit card company.

[Former_Member]

Lori,

If a dispute is opened with a credit card company, it will be between the card company and etsy, so we should never have to deal with that directly. I stil can't immage anyone not wanting proof of delivery, so this is a tough one for me to understand. If all we need is proof of shipment, then there would be no need for delivery confirmation or insurance at all. I still have a problem with this thought., and am not sure why this area of conversation is such a grey area. I will try a hypothetical question for admin.


I sell an item. Buyer does not receive. I can show proof that I shipped item via postal receipt and tracking info. Buyer says they did not receive, and I will have two different possibilities here.

We received the sale confirmation from Etsy and shipped to the address provided.

A. Delivery confirmation shows item was delivered.
B. Tracking number shows nothing other than item was sent through post office.

How is a dispute handled in both case?. It will always be the same general story. We sent, buyer says they did not receive, and tracking will either be example "A" or "B".

Not to bring paypal into the scenario, but I believe in example "A" they would side with the seller if delivery is shown,and the sale price was $250 or less. After $250 I think signature confirmation is needed for proof. In example "B" the buyer would win case as no delivery is shown.

I guess I am being a little pesty and criticle here, but I can see others want to know???? How would this be decided by etsy? Straight forward simple quesion with simple scenario laid out. There can always be variables, but I am asking just based on what I have written for the scenario.

[Former_Member]

How often is Etsy hacked into and how secure are our bank account and credit card info?

[RaggedyRee]

I just signed up so I need to follow this thread carefully. Thanks to all.

[ohmama]

The tracking number is also the delivery confirmation number, they are the same thing. When a package is sent, that bar code is scanned and proves both that you sent it and when it was delivered.

It is only with signature confirmation that it can be proven who received it.

[Former_Member]

As a Seller the obligation is only to prove you shipped it AND to the address as provided by the buyer. The obligation of the Seller can only be greater if in your policies you create an option stating all items will be shipped Signature Required or something of that nature so you are then sharing the obligation of a complete transaction with the Buyer.

It is not a reasonable expectation that the Seller should have to prove delivery without a Signature requirement. The Seller has no control over the transaction once it has been handed over to the Shipper. If you have any concerns about a transaction and whether or not there will be complications you should always bring those concerns into a conversation with the Buyer. Such a case would be sending to an Apt in a major city. Will the package be oversized, too large to fit in a mail box? Will there be a secure place for the postman to leave the package? Does the postman just leave the package at the door unsecure where any passer by could take it? Does the buyer have experience receiving packages? Will the postman simply leave a notice in the mailbox letting the Buyer know a delivery was attempted? Etc.

Hope this adds some perspective on the differences, I am not an expert but I have had experience as a seller in this type of situation.

[Former_Member · Accepted solution]

Hi everyone,

I apologize that we've been so silent on this topic. The truth is that we've been working on making this better--real protections for sellers and better tools. Although we hinted at it in our most recent direct checkout update, we couldn't share much info. We're finally ready to release this, and have announced it on the blog and in the forums. Here's the link to the announcement: https://www.etsy.com/blog/news/2012/introducing-etsy-seller-protection/

I'm starting a new thread in case any of you have questions!

[Former_Member]

Y'all are normally so forthright and direct with your answers that it was puzzling to see the vague answers. This makes me feel much better.

[Former_Member]

Evelyn says

I want to add that each dispute is quite nuanced and unique. As such, it's difficult to discuss the hypotheticals in such great detail.

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I want to add that I agree with this. It is very hard to discuss topics like this unless there is a specific transaction and an actual dispute to resolve. I am confident that if that does ever happen in my shop, Etsy has the tools in place to help me without having to go over every possible scenario here.