What can I do to protect myself as a seller?

[TheSlyFox]

I know there are no hard and fast rules for seller protection right now. I am assuming this is because you want to be able to deal with each situation on a case by case basis? Will there be rules made available to us at some point? In the case of a transaction going south will you take into account the seller's policies (if they are legal)? Will you be taking into account conversations with the buyer?

I haven't had a problem yet (knock wood), but with the busy holiday season encroaching, I just wanted to know if we would get at least a basic idea of what we need to do to help protect ourselves.

[TheSharkToothShop]

Celia,
I don't know how Etsy will handle things, I've not had a problem either to test it. I'll knock wood too. lol
This is not related to DC but, a few things that I've done over the years is always use delivery confirmation, which is basically automatic these days. I'll insure a package of higher value with "ShipSaver", it's cheaper than the USPS insurance. And I always double check the address showing for the customer in their account up against the address showing in their Paypal account, if they pay with Paypal. You'd be surprised at how many people move and do not update everything, If you double check that you won't end up in a position of sending the package to what is now the "wrong" location and having it forwarded or returned, neither are a good thing.
Chuck

[TheSlyFox]

Hi Chuck!

Yes, those are great suggestions and I do those, too! I have been basically following the paypal guidelines even with DC to be safe, but you never know if some weird situation will arise and I have been *hoping* that since admin here has so much more access to the whole transaction (convos back and forth, shop policies) that any sort of dispute resolution could, in theory, be even smoother. I hope that we never have to find out ;)

[Former_Member]

Ok, big question here ..... does anyone know if Etsy makes sure the address entered matches the CC information? Reason for asking ... if someone pays using someone elses cc ....... we have to ship out asap to get payment ..... so if the card is bad we won't know it till it's to late ...... Yes I may be crying the sky is falling .... never did like rain drops falling on my head. LOL But really, I know this sort of thing happens a whole lot and just wonder where we stand as sellers on it.

[ohmama]

I know this happens a lot too but I never understood how someone who steals a cc and then has the item shipped to their address. Wouldn't that be a dead give away that they stole the card and now they are caught by giving their address where the item is being shipped?

[Former_Member]

These are very good questions and I want to get the answers as well.

Mainly since I ship right away on most cases, if the charge turns out to be fraudulent, what protections do I have as a seller?

I shipped the item and now the payment has been reversed. What do I do?

[2TrickPony]

policies. very important.
they've come out and said this, in the DC team.

[2TrickPony]

and etsy has said that they are covering fraud.

[Former_Member]

Rachel ..... I thought I read it all, and yet I never say where etsy said 'in english' that they are covering fraud ....... would you ....... could you .... post the URL on that very page and show me? thanks

[Former_Member]

I saw in the other thread that Etsy covers these things.

I just want to feel comfortable since I cannot request the funds for 3 days and I normally ship same day/next day, I want to know that as a seller I have some protections.

Good to know.

[Former_Member]

I would just feel so much better if Etsy would say it instead of just another member. And the other thread I have been reading about this, it's just members not Etsy ......

[BittleBoxArt]

I too would really appreciate an Etsy Admin replying here with Etsy policy regarding who's responsible for covering a fraudulent credit card purchase. With PayPal I know I'm covered once PayPal says "OK To Ship". If Etsy policy exists, I can't seem to find it.

[BittleBoxArt]

Ok ... I did find policy after all .... should have looked more before asking :)

e. Etsy will bear the risk of credit card fraud (i.e. fraudulent purchase arising from the theft and unauthorized use of a third party's credit card information) occurring in connection with Payment Transactions. In the event Registered Seller is found to be complicit with any credit card fraud, Etsy will not be liable.

Found here http://www.etsy.com/help/article/1883

[Former_Member]

Help ....... I have never ever claimed to be the smartest cookie in the bag ..... and have to admit sometimes I have the brain of a dirt worm ....... but in little kid english could someone exlamin to me the legal terms of .......

In the event Registered Seller is found to be complicit with any credit card fraud, Etsy will not be liable.

[ohmama]

If the seller is going along with fraud with the buyer using the credit card, etsy will not cover it.

[2TrickPony]

Linda, if some seller came up with a con where they stole a credit card and somehow contrived to have purchases made out of their etsy shop to get money through use of that card. A situation like that would mean the seller is complicit, and in a case like that, etsy would not be liable -

[Former_Member]

Ok ..... I guess ...... I wouldn't think a seller would be so stupid as to steal a cc then turn around and buy things from their own shop, pay those listing fees, final value fees, and shipping fees, just can't think of anyone doing somthing like that.

but wouldn't be surprise if someone would steal a cc and buy from a seller anyplace at all, then scream the seller knew it was stolen in the first place.

Oh well ...... just me ...... but either one of those cases are the extream and although I wouldn't believe it happens .... I know it can.

My son had over $6,000 taken out of his banking account from an on-line theife and didn't know it till his account was dang near empty .... thank goodness his bank worked with him to get most of the money back. And he told me what to watch out for.

It's called a shark bite ..... if you notice a small withdraw from your account, even 1 cents, and know you didn't make it, call the card at once ..... the person who got him, made several shark bites in one day for some sort of web thing for songs ...... when they all went through, they went on and ordered flowers [for mother's day] had them delivered someplace even, rented a hotel room and air plane tickets ......... it just amazes me and scares me to death at the same time, the steps some take to be so dang dishonest.

[TheSlyFox]

I would still like to know if Etsy will be setting out any guidelines for us to follow to protect ourselves.

[Former_Member]

That would be nice. The above suggestions are helpful for protecting sellers, but some Etsy guidelines would likely add another layer of protection to sales through direct checkout.

[Former_Member]

Hi everyone,

I understand your concern surrounding seller protection, and I want to assure you that we have measures in place to protect sellers using direct checkout. I see there's already been some discussion about fraudulent purchases; I want add some information on Non-deliveries and Not-as-described:

Non-delivery: if a buyer opens a case for non-delivery, a seller can resolve it with either proof of a refund, or proof of shipment. If the seller did ship the item to the buyer as agreed upon in the Etsy transaction invoice, the seller will not be required to refund the buyer. The seller will only need to provide proof of shipment (shipping or customs receipt, tracking info, etc) to close the case. If the buyer is unwilling to close the case after receiving this information, the seller can always reach out to Etsy admin for assistance in resolving the case.

Not-described: if a buyer opens a case for an item that they have received and have a problem with, we ask that the seller and buyer work together to reach a resolution directly. The case can be escalated to be reviewed by an Etsy admin.

-Evelyn

[Former_Member]

Good to know, thanks!

[TheSlyFox]

Thank you so much for letting us know!

[Former_Member]

Non-delivery: if a buyer opens a case for non-delivery, a seller can resolve it with either proof of a refund, or proof of shipment. If the seller did ship the item to the buyer as agreed upon in the Etsy transaction invoice, the seller will not be required to refund the buyer. The seller will only need to provide proof of shipment (shipping or customs receipt, tracking info, etc) to close the case. If the buyer is unwilling to close the case after receiving this information, the seller can always reach out to Etsy admin for assistance in resolving the case.


So are you saying that proof of shipping will satisfy the requirements, and not proof of delivery, which is a totally different thing??

[ohmama]

Good question. Proof of shipping via delivery confirmation is a joke. That only means the package was delivered, not that it was delivered to the correct address so that the right person received it.

I think the only way to prove delivery is with signature confirmation. Not many sellers use that though.

[TheSlyFox]

She didn't say you had to prove delivery, she said you had to prove that you shipped it. So, in this instance, it seems like DC's rules are more lenient than PP's.