etsy labels flat rate not honored San Francisco

[TomCatBazaar]

I bought a flat rate shipping label on etsy and sent the item to Kentfield, CA.  The item came back to me as needing parcel rate with postage due. This item clearly qualifies as flat rate. The label on envelope indicates this mistake was made from "SF P&DC NIXIE SF CA 94188" (? can't read zip code for sure).  

I have had this happen in the past also near San Francisco and the postal clerk charged the buyer for more postage (I reimbursed her). That is also not the process.

I think USPS in CA needs education about flat rate pre-paid labels from Etsy.  I hope someone at Etsy can do this. I am sure I am not the only one who has had this problem

[NanaLetha]

Did you use a USPS flat rate box or envelope?

[TomCatBazaar]

a flat first class envelope rate on etsy

[TinLizziAntiques]

OP, to qualify for the flat rate postage, you pack the merchandise in a special free Flat Rate box offered by USPS. You can not use any plain box you may have.

[ClassicBagsSP]

I had my flat rate, USPS legal envelope returned for more postage.  USPS did not accept the Etsy postage.  

[TomCatBazaar]

no, it's not flat rate priority. Etsy has a mail label class called "flat" so does usps--it's first class--next up from letter. Not flat rate priority with their usps boxes/envelopes. Etsy does it with Pitney Bowes.

[ClassicBagsSP]

No.  If it fits, it ships.

[AnchorRoadVintage]

A flat has to be uniform thickness and less than 3/4 inch thick. If you shipped clothing, that wouldn’t be an appropriate label. 

[VintageRescueSquad]

AnchorRoad is right. Flat is flat and uniform. If it's not, it gets bumped up to a package rate.

If I were you, I would go to my local PO and ask them for clarification about what works for that rate. Your ties might qualify, but most other clothing items will not.

[TomCatBazaar]

no, it's not from this shop--not clothing. It's flat paper--uniform thickness and less than .4 " thick actually. Will take to post office here. But Etsy should have their Pitney Bowes account rep educate the group in San Fran. Thant's the only place this has happened.

[hopeandjoystudios]

There are a lot  of criteria for a flat. If it is deemed too floppy or rigid they can kick it out.

2.1 General Definition of Flat-Size Mail

Flat-size mail is:

1. More than 11-1/2 inches long, or more than 6-1/8 inches high, or more than 1/4 inch thick, except as allowed for EDDM-Retail flats under 140. For general retail mailability, all pieces 1/4 inch thick or less must be a minimum of 5 inches long and 3-1/2 inches high and 0.007 inch thick.
2. Not more than 15 inches long, or more than 12 inches high, or more than 3/4 inch thick.
3. Flexible (see 2.3).
4. Rectangular with four square corners or with finished corners that do not exceed a radius of 0.125 inch (1/8 inch). See Exhibit 201.1.1.1.
5. Uniformly thick (see 2.4).
6. Unwrapped, sleeved, wrapped, or enveloped.

2.2 Length and Height of Flats

The length of a flat-size mailpiece is the longest dimension. The height is the dimension perpendicular to the length.

2.3 Minimum Flexibility Criteria for Flat-Size Pieces

Flat-size pieces must be flexible. Boxes—with or without hinges, gaps, or breaks that allow the piece to bend—are not flats. Tight envelopes or wrappers that are filled with one or more boxes are not flats. At the customer‘s option, a customer may perform the following test on their own mailpieces. When a postal employee observes a customer demonstrating that a flat-size piece is flexible according to these standards, the employee does not need to perform the test. Test flats as defined in 201.4.3.

2.4 Uniform Thickness

Flat-size mailpieces must be uniformly thick so that any bumps, protrusions, or other irregularities do not cause more than 1/4-inch variance in thickness. When determining variance in thickness, exclude the outside edges of a mailpiece (1 inch from each edge) when the contents do not extend into those edges. Also, exclude the selvage of any polywrap covering (see 201.5.3 from this determination. Mailers must secure nonpaper contents to prevent shifting of more than 2 inches within the mailpiece if shifting would cause the piece to be nonuniform in thickness or would result in the contents bursting out of the mailpiece (see 601.3.3).

2.5 Ineligible Flat-Size Pieces

Flat-size mailpieces that do not meet the eligibility standards in 2.3 through 2.4 are considered parcels and must pay the applicable parcel prices.

If you are meeting all those requirements, I'd take the mail piece to your PO and ask WTH and complain. They do make mistakes.

[ClassicBagsSP]

I had an etsy sale going to San Francisco and it was returned all the way to NJ for additional postage.  They circled the "commercial" notation on the label and said I owed more.  I looked up the cost, again, on Etsy and I was correct.  But, the USPS people covered up my label with tape and I could not re-use.  Inserted the whole thing in a new envelope and trying again but agree that Etsy should educate folks in San Francisco.  I wrote on the package that it was an Etsy label with hope it'll go through.

[hopeandjoystudios]

200 Commercial Letters, Flats, and Parcels Design Standards | Postal Explorer (usps.com) this too..look for the flexibility and deflection tests. Do most do those tests? Doubtful but you may have a stickler in that area. I bought some rigid mailers once and asked my PO guy if they were good enough. He said he'd pass it but someone else may not. So I put cardboard in them to make sure they are a package. I know you are shipping flat, but same deal..someone may be picky along the line.

[TomCatBazaar]

It meets all criteria. I have been doing mail for many many years and etsy Pitney Bowes flats since that came out. It's the one city distribution point--they don't get it. Will take to usps tomorrow

[TomCatBazaar]

Update--I took it to USPS today and they agreed with me should be a flat, but I still had to pay to resend it. I paid $5.18 to send as a package as I could not risk it coming back to me again due to San Francisco USPS mistake. The postal clerk put a not on it about their mistake but they will probably never read it

[nineteen27]

the only reason you had to pay to resend it is because you shipped it a different way.

i would have made usps send it the same way as the first time without re-charging me for their error.

and yes i would want the usps  clerk to write a note explaining that the postage for the flat is correct.

[Adorabilities]

@TomCatBazaar 
Now the issue will be whether they decide to bump it up to Priority this time around.
If it is flat enough for you to have considered it "a flat," then it probably doesn't qualify for ground advantage, which has to be at least 3/4" at some point. And it's very possible that the clerk at your PO doesn't know about the 3/4" bump rule. 

[ClassicBagsSP]

I re-sent to an address in San Francisco - so hoping it goes through this time.  I wrote on it that it was an Etsy label.  Hope that helps.  Thanks for confirming why it failed the first time.  

[Adorabilities]

Just clarifying that you're talking about a flat. Not a "flat rate" envelope.

I wish they had come up with some different terms, using "flat" and "flat rate" to mean completely different things is silly. Also, thank goodness first-class parcel is no longer a thing -- because there have been tons of misunderstandings here when discussing first-class mail and first-class parcel.

[TomCatBazaar]

yes, it was a "flat." and my USPS (2 clerks) confirmed it. I re-sent it as ground-advantage as I couldn't risk a time-sensitive item coming back to me again, when it reaches San Francisco again.  Etsy/Pitney Bowes needs to educate them. That's the second time They made that error. The first time, they charged the buyer and that's wrong too. She was irate.  Really, the reason I posted here was because I wondered if others had that problem with that same USPS distribution point.

[ClassicBagsSP]

Yes!  Please educate them in San Francisco!!!