I have to laugh at search.

[#1]

I'm probably on the wrong board, but I can only define Etsy's laughable search as a technical issue.

For instance, I just designed and posted a cute little Santa cam Christmas ornament, and named it "Santa Cam Christmas Ornament". Then I went out to Etsy's home page and did a search for...you guessed it, "Santa Cam Christmas Ornament." Out of 3,298 results, I didn't actually expect to see my Santa cam, especially since I had posted it only moments before, but I did want to see what I was up against, so I scrolled through for a few minutes, then decided to do some sorting. I started by making sure all my filters were reset to "Any" in all categories, then I sorted by Most Recent.

Guess how many items came up? ONE, plus four ads--and one of those ads wasn't a Santa cam.

Then, those same 5 listings came up under Highest Price and again under Lowest Price. When I switched to Top Customer Reviews, the one ad that wasn't a Santa cam was switched out for another ad that isn't a Santa cam, and the other four items stayed the same. (Well, one is technically an elf cam. Close enough, I suppose.)

Then I decided to switch back to Relevancy, and the 3,298 results had dropped down to 911 (which is appropriate, since Etsy's search is on life support and needs 911.) In position #3 on the very top line, one is not a Santa cam (it's the same ad from Top Customer Reviews). Starting on row 4, every third row is filled with...not Santa cams.

What on earth is happening in Etsy's search department?!

Thanks for listening!

/rant

[heavyistheheart]

It is possible sellers are using unrelated tags to come up in different searches

[CreeksideCraftwork]

I just re-did the search while logged in (I wasn't logged in the first time), and got 3,280 results no matter how I sorted. However, what I didn't see when I searched for "most recent" was my Santa cam that I listed last night, which initially prompted this thread.

The first two results after the row of ads were one flat ornament-shaped sublimation template that makes no mention of a Santa cam, and one listing for printable Santa letters for children. Throughout the first results page, there are a total of 16 items that have nothing at all to with my search terms.

I. Give. Up.

[hopeandjoystudios]

Even if your item is there, if it is not on the first few pages it won't matter. You do not say wooden or wood ornament in your tags. If I wanted a wooden ornament I would include that term in my search. Wooden santa cam ornament - Etsy 989 results (a lot NOT wood) Your repeat words in your tags a lot. Missing tags Children's ornament? Kids ornament? Wood ornament? I am sure there are more Wooden santa cam ornament gift tag - Etsy It may just be that there are a lot of people listing the same/similar ornaments. Look at how they are tagging? Adding relevant filters gets it down to this Wooden santa cam ornament gift tag - Etsy 347. I think I did the category for ornaments, US physical item any price, handmade. PLUS not sure how many you have sold if any as you said it was a new listing. You may be fighting sellers who have sold hundreds which is an invisible search boost.

[Former_Member · Accepted solution]

@CreeksideCraftwork  

Backing up what @hopeandjoystudios  said here, especially regarding keywords and it being a new listing fighting the established high-converters.

When you searched logged in and didn't see your own listing, that's personalization at work. Possibly the AI knows you've seen that listing but didn't buy it, so it assumes it's not what you're looking for.

When Hope searches 'wooden santa cam ornament' and sees a lot that aren't wooden, it tells me a few things.

1. that there's not a lot of wooden ones so the AI is suggesting substitutes that other people have bought;

2. it's putting more value on 'santa cam ornament' listings that are converting well. Which is going to include svg/printables, templates and supplies.

I've also noticed something with niche terms lately in that it will ignore a word entirely if it's not a search it's encountered before. Sometiems it will even just put the listings that match all those keywords in ads. Sneaky, but in my searching for 'wooden santa cam ornament', the most accurate (aka ones that were wood) are in the 'most loved' highlight runner and then in ads. Weirdly it was also a drop-down suggestion so I think all of us in this thread searching it have taught it to understand that word has value LOL

Bottom line: use keywords your buyer is using; Hope has great suggestions. Until this thread I'd never heard of a santa cam - what keywords could you use to reach those people? Keywords they might habitually use, like 'grandkids ornament' or 'geeky christmas ornament' or even 'natural christmas'. You could even use Scandi as a keyword since the house is a very scandi/swedish motif.

Also if a new listing is going for a niche search AI doesn't understand, it might help to advertise it. I have done no real research on this but I think the ads algorithm values exact word match more than the organic results do. Possibly because it heightens the likelihood of a click.

[digitaldoodlebug]

@Former_Member 

That's interesting, because of personalization etsy shows me my listings a LOT. Because they are ones I've viewed they put them at the top of searches. To do any sort of actual search I have to do private window. 

[Former_Member]

@digitaldoodlebug  at the risk of sounding like I'm making excuses hahaha I think it's down to different groups. In one of my accounts I will see my own stuff regularly, in my vintage store account I don't. It would probably also depend on what we're searching for and how we behaved during that search, and afterward.

[hopeandjoystudios]

Santa cam ornament - Etsy

This morning via my phone (not the app) I got 944 relevant (mostly) results, On my PC via MS edge I get the above return 3525 results (unfiltered) that seem fairly relevant.

[fineartstoneware]

Yes, I just listed something and went to search to look for it.    I typed in what I was looking for, and found everything under the sun!

Can't make this stuff up!

[hopeandjoystudios]

I think it does take a little bit for it to surface in search. Not instant.

[CreeksideCraftwork]

I really appreciate everyone weighing in on their search experience! As of today, when not logged in, my listing comes up on the first page for "Santa Cam Gift Tag" and "Wood Santa Cam Christmas Ornament" (thanks for the tag tips @hopeandjoystudios).  Buyers will have to already know they're looking for a wood item, and think to add that to their search terms since it doesn't come up under that term without "wood," but it's better than not coming up at all! 

@Former_MemberThank you for the in-depth explanation of how and why search may be acting the way it does! You've brought up an interesting point about AI thinking shoppers don't like something just because they didn't engage with it the first time they saw it. That explains why I can never find the thing I want to purchase when I go looking for it again later. I get that that's why the favorite button exists, but given how biased search is when I'm logged in, I only shop Etsy when logged out, which precludes me from using that feature. That's a flaw the AI techs should probably address. Aside from that, your response is filled with lots of great advice, so thank you for sharing!

I hope everyone has a wonderful December, and a profitable shopping season!

[Former_Member]

@CreeksideCraftwork  it's a bit of a mystery the way it works, all we can do is speculate, use strategic logic, and test. Etsy tests constantly; at any given time search might be operating different to usual, and might only operate like that for an hour or a week, or even just for you in the demographic you're part of.

There have been so many things I've seen in ads and tried to look for them organically, but no matter how I try, I can't find them again! It's like the AI said, 'you didn't like it, I got rid of it' LOL

[FancyTogs]

@CreeksideCraftwork 

" but given how biased search is when I'm logged in, I only shop Etsy when logged out, "

When you are logged out Etsy saves your search history in the browser's cookies. The AI remembers you as a logged out user on that browser.

To get unbiased search you need to be logged out and also using an incognito / private brower window that does not save the cookies at the end of the browser session.

Even with being logged out and using an incognito / private browser, there are still ways that Etsy could recognise the device & browser being used and tie them to your user account. They don't appear use this to apply search bias, yet, but we can't be sure.

Lawrence

[BagmakerSupply]

@FancyTogs: Good points. "Even with being logged out and using an incognito / private browser, there are still ways that Etsy could recognise the device" for example your IP address among many others.

[FancyTogs]

@BagmakerSupply 

Despite common fears, IP addresses are not really that good an identifier. Most personal internet connections are going to be on dynamic IP addresses (short term leases from a pool of internet IP addresses), but also passed through 1 or more NAT (Network Address Translation) routers.

For those that don't know . . .

A NAT router passes connections upstream by stripping the downstream private network IP address for the device and replacing it with the router's upstream IP address plus a port number. Data returning from internet servers goes to the router and port number. The NAT router looks in its memory for the port number and attaches the downstream IP address for the port number so it can reach the device that sent the original data request.

The private network IP addresses of devices below a NAT router are effectively hidden from the upstream networks and the internet.

The private network below a NAT router may also have dynamic IP addressing, so no one device has a continuous local network address.

NAT routers are usually included in broadband connection devices, usually your wifi unit. They can also exist within your broadband supplier's network, sitting between your wifi router and the internet proper.

IP addresses seen by Etsy are therefore rarely traceable to an individual device.

A static IP address on the internet is expensive and unnecessary for most domestic broadband connections. You only need it if you are hosting an internet server, but there are also ways to use a dynamic IP address for a server.

Lawrence

[digitaldoodlebug]

@FancyTogs 

Very good info. From what I've read they can identify your city or zip code by IP (if you're not on a VPN). Then websites can see your browser, OS, screen resolution. They may be able to piece some of the info together, especially if you're not in a heavily populated area. 

[FancyTogs]

@digitaldoodlebug 

Anybody can locate the general area of your internet provider's service for that IP address because of all the people using it who are happy to broadcast their location.

Browser version is included as part of http &https protocol when contacting a web server. It is in the "user agent header". Other user device info is also transmitted or can be requested by web pages.

Info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User-Agent_header

Different browsers interpret the page code slightly differently, so web servers often need the system info to send tweaked versions of the pages tailored to suit the browser and system being used.

If you go to a software download site they will usually correctly identify the operating system you are using and present the relevant download.

Whenever you connect to a web site you are transmitting information about your device.

Lawrence

[CreeksideCraftwork]

@artbyinky"I’m happy to support local, but often it’s not relevant to what I’m looking for."  <--This!! 

[busterbeanknows]

After getting extremely frustrated with the new formula search method which forces a general search through a maze of predetermined options/categories.. I finally realized the buyer must use the category for the item they are looking for in the search bar in order to refine and reduce results.  Which means if you are looking for an item that can possibly fit into more than one category it's not going to be easy to track down using the "formula" method. 
Example... I wanted to do a price comparison on some wire birds I made to sell as supplies. Using the new method the category choice  is now on the main search page. 
First choice. Craft Tools and Supplies
Second choice is an option of Home &Hobby, Sewing & Fiber, Paper & Party, Sculpting & Forming etc..
I choose Home & Hobby
Third choice is an option of materials.. Wood, Plastic, Fabric, Metal
I choose Metal resulting in a new page with "metal home and hobby" automatically placed in the search bar
5,000+ results with the only additional filters limited to price, estimated time of delivery, shipping and sellers
If I try to add 'wire bird' into the search bar by erasing "metal home and hobby" I go back to the main page of search with 25K unfiltered results. 
If I add 'wire bird' to the existing 'metal home and hobby' it filters the search to a more manageable result (under 200) but includes wire birds sculptures.. There are actually only about 25 listings that could be considered supplies and my listing isn't included in the search results. 
Home and Hobby is the only category that has a "metal or wire" in Craft Tools and Supply other than jewelry (not the right category for 5 to 6 inch birds)

If I type in wire bird supply on the main page and use the filter for USA, handmade, and physical item... there are 172 results and my listing shows up on the first page.. 

How is the buyer to know to put the category in the search bar if they actually want to not waste time running through the Etsy formula search maze?