Etsy is not calculating irregular envelopes correctly, and USPS is refusing them!

[TheCrownArts]

you can view my history to see how infuriating this is for me, since I stopped using stamps and intentionally started using Etsy's calculations just so I wouldn't get docked on not including tracking on my stickers. 

I just dropped off 30 envelopes, and thank goodness I was actually in line for something else, because the worker at USPS told me that I didn't have enough postage on my square envelopes (even though I have the exact parameters set correctly in Etsy). I just thought that Etsy had to deal with USPS so they got a discount, but the worker disagreed. he said the discount was only from the standard $.73 rate, but that the your irregular envelope (they aren't even oversized, they are the same height as my rectangle envelopes) was not included in that and each one cost an additional $.50 (because apparently if you buy the additional postage at the post office then you don't get the discount even if you previously bought the label through Etsy).

I am just so infuriated and frustrated because I was very happy just using my stamps, but Etsy had to set up a system that punished me as a seller for doing that, and then they can't even get it right! I have sent off dozens of orders, and I'm very concerned that I'm going to get a huge pile back in the mail with a ton of unhappy customers, and it's all Etsy's fault.

BEWARE!!! 

[hopeandjoystudios]

Square envelopes are and always have been the recipient of a surcharge. Etsy does not have a non machinable (square envelope) surcharge capability so you have to pay extra for that at the PO. Why they don't? Not sure. Don't use square envelopes would be the easiest fix. Some things Etsy expects up to know/figure out on our own. Could they have a pop up if someone enters a square envelope? Sure.

[TheCrownArts]

I understand the fix -- but this doesn't solve the dozens of past orders I sent. Because I calculated on Etsy itself (using square measurements), I assumed it was taking the shape into account. I understood that with stamps there was an extra cost, and I included extra stamps in that case. However it makes no sense that Etsy wouldn't be accounting for this when they specifically ask for the measurements of the envelope (and DO charge extra for heavier than an ounce).

I wrote this as a warning to anyone who might not have realized this was happening. 

[hopeandjoystudios]

from the USPS website: 

Nonmachinable Envelopes

Unusually shaped mail, like square or vertical envelopes, lumpy envelopes, rigid envelopes, and mail with clasps, string, or buttons, must be hand-canceled. They are charged a nonmachinable surcharge even if they weigh less than 1 oz.

Not sure if they CAN have a non machinable surcharge as they offer commercial rates?

[TheCrownArts]

My issue is with Etsy -- they are the ones calculating the price based on the letter envelope weight and size. Why wouldn't they take this into account or warn of it?! I was doing it correctly with stamps and including extra postage, but since Etsy has special rates, there was no reason for me to think Etsy was just calculating things incorrectly -- again, they add cost when I add weight, but the irregular shape did nothing to the cost and didn't warn me of anything. 

[hopeandjoystudios]

if you have a lot of square envelopes, put them in a rectangular outside envelope and you should be good? as long as it is the right dimensions for FC letter rate

[hopeandjoystudios]

If you have been using square envelopes and just dropping them off with stamps, your customers may have been getting a surcharge on their arrival if they were not returning them to you directly. Not good. No good reason to use square envelopes? Cuter? You are lucky. I have heard of brides sending wedding invitations in square envelopes only to get them returned with a big return to sender stamp so not only did they have to buy postage again and more postage, their matching envelope was ruined.

[TheCrownArts]

I do have a lot, but obviously am not going to use them now. I'm so frustrated because I had HUNDREDS of normal envelopes already stamped, but Etsy started punishing me for not having tracking. The square envelopes fit the labels better and because Etsy was calculating the price based on the exact envelope size, I assumed they had a deal with USPS.

[TheCrownArts]

And yep, the USPS dude said that my CUSTOMERS have been getting a surcharge, which is horrifying as a shop owner!

This is fully on Etsy for not calculating the correct postage. They should be adding the surcharge based on the exact square measurements in my label settings. They update price for weight, why not shape?!

[hopeandjoystudios]

The link said irregular mail had to be hand canceled/stamped. Which cannot happen with an Etsy labeled letter dropped in a bin.

[Adorabilities]

If you're using square envelopes in hope that doing so will make them non-machinable, that doesn't necessarily work, even when you pay the surcharge.

Like @hopeandjoystudios  said, there's no way to pay the non-machinable surcharge on Etsy. You can put extra stamps on the envelope to pay it, but in my experience, the envelopes can get machined anyway, no matter how you mark them or what surcharges you pay.

These are supposed to be non-machinable: square envelopes, vertical envelopes, envelopes with bumps, etc. None of that actually prevents envelopes from being put in the machine.

If you're not trying to have the envelopes hand-stamped, you still have to pay the surcharge. They may deliver the envelope to your customer with "postage due" otherwise.

[TheCrownArts]

Well I learned today that you lose the discount if you add a stamp (aka it's 50 cents per envelope -- I don't care that much and just used a normal forever stamp to fully cover the cost) and it still has to be manually stamped, so you need to leave it in the front of the post office and not just in the pile. 

Of course this is the last day this will be an issue since I will no longer be using square envelopes ever again..... 

[TBQSC]

Use a regular rectangle envelope for your stickers and a padded envelope for your pins ... you should be good to go!  But for future reference, in case you have not already read it, here is Etsy's Letters Flats information...

https://help.etsy.com/hc/en-us/articles/360039466434-How-to-Ship-First-Class-Flats-and-Letters-with-...

[TheCrownArts]

I already know what to do for the future. My issue is with Etsy not calculating prices correctly nor warning sellers. If you add an ounce of weight, it adds cost, as it should. But if you put in square measurements, it does NOT add cost, which is a huge issue! I should have had the correct amount calculated for every order, because my measurements were correct. 

Obviously we get discounts with Etsy, and so I naturally assumed that this was just part of the Etsy discount (I knew that square envelopes cost more WITH STAMPS -- but a stamp also costs .73, not .69 [etsy's discount]).

This is 100% a problem with Etsy's system. 

[CraftyCornishMaids]

Different sizes are different prices, they are not surcharges for hand cancelling, they are standard prices for those sizes.

Hand cancelling means they don't go through the standard sorting, and take longer for delivery - I wouldn't use anything that requires that, especially this time if year.

[Adorabilities]

The entire range of letter-sized envelopes is the same price. The fact that the envelope is square is what’s causing the surcharge.

[TheCrownArts]

Yeah I just had no idea about all of this -- I knew that square envelopes were more but only when I was using stamps, but it also costs more to use stamps for a NORMAL envelope because Etsy gets a discount. I put all the data in correctly to Etsy and expected them to create the correct price (after all, they update the cost based on weight; why not size?). 

@Adorabilities  Not quite: the weight affects the price too. They are selectively not including correct surcharges for size only.

[Adorabilities]

@TheCrownArts 

Yes, the weight will affect the price. But the size of the envelope (as long as it is landscape) does not change the price unless it's oversized.

[hopeandjoystudios]

How to Ship First-Class Flats and Letters with Etsy Shipping Labels – Etsy Help

in the usps link : First-Class Mail letters that have one or more nonmachinable characteristics will pay a nonmachinable surcharge. Customers can be unpleasantly surprised that they must pay extra postage when, for example, they mail a square greeting card. The Postal Service charges extra postage because mailpieces that are rigid, square, or unusually shaped, often jam postal equipment and are difficult to process. This costs the Postal Service time and money—and may also damage your mailpiece.

this is not 100% on Etsy. Could they make that provided info easier to access or have a pop up warning? Yes.

[TheCrownArts]

Yeah nah. Of course if you are sending square greeting cards, that is an unpleasant surprise to get to the post office and find this out.

But Etsy specifically has a system for creating labels and correct postage for sellers! That is on them to be actually creating the correct postage.  

Even a warning isn't enough, imo. It should be built into the system. Otherwise, what is the point of sellers typing in the exact measurements of their envelopes? 

[michellepatterns]

Etsy can't add in every failsafe for sellers and some things are just going to be learned by experience. So they don't warn sellers about square envelopes or a number of other things that can cause problems while shipping.  It's on the seller to learn the ins and outs of shipping and square envelopes are one of those things.    

[TheCrownArts]

Do you have examples of other places where errors like this happen? If so, we SHOULD be helping each other and bringing them up in this forum. And we should be alerting Etsy that they have bugs.

The fact that Etsy gets and advertises cheaper rates with USPS is relevant here. It appeared that Etsy just had a discounted rate and that the surcharge didn't apply because they give so much business to the post office.

I knew that square envelopes were more expensive -- but only when I was using stamps. It also costs more to use stamps for a rectangular envelope than to use Etsy.

Etsy's whole label model is that they calculate it for you (that wording is even in the modals). I put all the data in correctly to Etsy and expected them to create the correct price, as they do for EVERY OTHER envelope and package.

This whole post was a warning to anyone else who might be doing the same thing and not realizing that Etsy is calculating incorrectly and surcharging the seller's customers (bad look for a shop). 

[EarthSisterStudioCo · Accepted solution]

yeah as an avid mailer and seed trader, i did know about this, but unlike the OP i intentionally use square envelopes to avoid the machine process.

it is actually a better way to mail if you are mailing things and not just paper.

only with delicate stuff, seeds for instance, i dont want them to get squished by the machine. you can get the butterfly stamps. i buy a couple of sheets at a time, especially if i know they are going up, they have gone up a lot recently but i still have quite a few left at old price...they are like forever stamps. 

the butterfly stamp -- is the non machinable stamp, and i usually write on it - hand cancel please, and the square envelope too - just to give extra redundancy to my hand cancel request. because they all know square envelope means hand sorting to take it outof the machine path.

but yeah it does suck that etsy doesnt offer this...at the non machinable rate. i do sometimes use it for etsy orders when its particularly fitting, and then just accept the ding as not being tracked. usualy i just use rectangular envelopes like the post office likes, but for some things the square envelope and hand cancelling is best.

[TheCrownArts]

i intentionally use square envelopes to avoid the machine process

---

I love this perspective. Do you know how to add the correct amount when shipping using Etsy labels? Using the correct size and weight doesn't create the right priced label (hence this whole post). Would you just add an ounce of weight? Or do you always use stamps and don't care about tracking?

(this was me before, but it kept knocking my seller status, I still haven't decided which method makes more sense for my shop)

[EarthSisterStudioCo]

hey sorry for the delay - i am not often on the forums.

but actually i just considered what you are saying and you may have figured out the work around for trying to do non machinable intentionally (good for tiny lightweight objects to avoid machine processing ) -- use etsy label at letter rate and then add the "non machinable surcharge' -- and still have it tracked etsys system and not get dinged for untracked.

  it used to be 23 cents, but i am not up on the current round of postal increases, so that may be outdated. but for a long time the extra you pay for non machinable, just that spoecifically - has been 23 cents additionally. i am pretty sure that would fly with the post office, the regular print out pitney bowes stamp (for 1,2,or 3 ounces) and then add 23 cents in stamps.

i am not a collector or anything but i do like and keep stamps. so i can make that up in various rolls of 10 cent and 5 cent stamps, i think i even have a big batch of like 1 cent and 2 cents.

anywho i think that would work, may look odd a bit, but print a label and add the surcharge amount in stamps.

i recommend also writing directly on the envelope "please hand cancel" like right under the stamps, or also writing specifically "non machinable" AND using a square envelope.

the square envelope is a big visual clue anyway, all the post office workers know there are already non machinable for just being square.

i may try thid the next time it comes up for me. this is legit, i think, as far as the PO is concerned.... just never considered it.