Etsy are once again removing my listings which belong to me.

[RebelJewelleryShop]

To start with I am sorry to be back here posting again unfortunately I am going around in circles.

I have been selling on Etsy for over three years. I have multiple images stolen from my shop and published online. I have messaged Etsy with this information plus IPR reports of listings stolen on Ali Express. And originally images including meta data. 

My listings are yet again being deactivated. My items fall into the following category 

Hand assembled items: Commercially available supplies or components that a seller attached together or combined by hand to create a unique end-product.

E.g. Using jewellery-making tools to attach charms to a necklace chain; sewing patches onto a denim jacket

So why are my listings still being deactivated. I shouldn't be made to be the guilty party due to sites stealing my photos.

Etys have reactivated my listings once and are now deactivating them again daily.

Let me be clear on how much stress this is causing me as an individual.

This needs looking into ASAP. 

[ChantillyAvenue]

@RebelJewelleryShop 

You may get a lot of feedback on what you can do to get the help and attention you need on this issue, but the one thing I can tell you, judging by recent statements made by Etsy, is that they aren't openly acknowledging what most forum regulars see as a growing epidemic.  We see post after post just like this.  Daily.  Etsy says it happens rarely, and the appeal & reactivation process (where warranted) is relatively quick and easy (paraphrasing).  Yet, at least one long term seller has been told that they no longer accept appeals.  Which is it?  The proof is in the pudding, as the saying goes.  I go by what they do and not what they say, and everything I see tells me they are more intent on removing evidence of problems from the forums than actually solving any.  Agree with you that it needs looking into, but I'm skeptical that it will be soon enough to help anyone currently being affected.

[OneEyeCatStudio]

"...  they aren't openly acknowledging what most forum regulars see as a growing epidemic."

Not acknowledging to the point, recently, that they appear to be actively trying to hide it.

[TheBeeStop]

"and everything I see tells me they are more intent on removing evidence of problems from the forums than actually solving any.  "

I'm not sure if this is the proper way to quote, but Amen!  to this statement right here! The way in which the mods seems to have been given the sole job of coming into the forum and quickly closing out posts regarding unfair listing take downs is so upsetting. And really makes me question the ethics of Etsy. 

[ExtremeCreation]

Are the ones that have been stolen with your watermark? Meaning... are the ones you found that were stolen, did the thief use the images that still had your watermark on them or did your photos not have a watermark before they were stolen? I see your images with the watermark in your shop. 

[ChantillyAvenue]

@RebelJewelleryShop 

Also, "Hand assembled items: Commercially available supplies or components that a seller attached together or combined by hand to create a unique end-product."

Is contributing to the problem.  I reverse image searched several of your items and there are sellers on Etsy and Amazon with identical items, not using your pictures.  The problem with commercially available supplies is that anyone can order the same charms you use, put them on chains or the same style ear wires, and sell identical products.  And they wouldn't be doing anything against the ToUs.  But Etsy bots will identify those products as being identical and deactivate the listings.  Even if they do hear an appeal, they probably wouldn't be inclined to reverse it.  

[ExtremeCreation]

@ChantillyAvenue  I saw and thought the same thing. Many can order the same supplies and end up creating similar or almost identical pieces. All I can think of is if each listing having a video of it being made by the seller or shop members of that specific piece. Of course I wouldn't think they  would have to make a video of every single piece but only 1 video if they make multiple pieces in the same design.  Not sure what else can be done as it seems this is an ongoing issue with no end. 

[digitaldoodlebug]

They should be looking for identical photos, not items. Not saying it can't happen. But for one I don't think the AI is smart enough to identify a small part of the photo. For 2 if etsy were to program it that way they would be reversing their decision to allow charm on chain items as there will always be identicals of such items.

[ChantillyAvenue]

@digitaldoodlebug 

I hope to be wrong, but I think "charm on a chain" is going to be wiped out eventually as well.  If this snowball continues rolling downhill, it could roll until the site itself goes bust.

[cindylouwho2]

@ChantillyAvenue @digitaldoodlebug Unfortunately, Etsy is already taking down listings where similar items are found elsewhere, and is telling the sellers that. They do have the ability to recognize identical and similar pendants and charms. 

And yes, this plus the new search diversity rules will kill most charm-on-a-chain shops. Etsy does not want a search for "skeleton necklace" to turn up several of the same pendant on page 1. @RebelJewelleryShop 

[ChantillyAvenue]

@cindylouwho2 

Thank you, as always, for your insights and diligent research.  I can be slow on the uptake, but things are finally clicking into place.

[digitaldoodlebug]

@cindylouwho2 

That's interesting. And I can see it backfiring just as much as removing items that have images on big websites once it tackles all items. As many things can be very similar. We know how smart AI is... If they wanted to declutter they could remove POD items and AI. Instead they encourage nearly identical items through said means.

[nineteen27]

this has nothing to do with your issue.

but.

i love the review by chris.

on september 6th.

[PWOriginals]

Priceless!

[DOKOcreations]

You made me look. Love it!

[LilMissSweetPea]

Since you are not in USA so you cannot access the "request a call back" option, I suggest you find the last emails from Etsy clearing your last takedowns. Message them there. I found that if I go to Etsy Help, on a computer, I can see my photo on the top right, clicking that took me back to where the correspondence with them was when I was targeted in May. Long story, but thankfully they stopped harassing me.

[RebelJewelleryShop]

It's is clear that this is a growing issue I agree. I'd be interested to see what percentage of sellers fall under this section of the Handmade Policy. 

If they are going to reverse image search charms that are commercially available. They will be shutting down. A huge proportion of their sellers.

I means it's already clear they are happy to continue down this route of deactivating and suspended sellers. It's not a good sign for the future. I get they needed to shut down drop shipping but using an ai system to instantly deactivate any resemblance of something else online is a poorly thought out soloution.

[PWOriginals]

I've been wondering if Etsy's bots are looking just for exact pictures OR if they're zeroing in on the item itself.

If they're trained to find just the item, Etsy needs to teach them to leave "hand assembled" alone instead of grouping those into the same "made by" category or, like you say, there will be takedowns of a gazillion Etsy-allowed jewelry listings here.

So sorry you're going through this.

[ChantillyAvenue]

@RebelJewelleryShop  @PWOriginals 

This scenario occurred to me before I actively observed it happening.  Sorry it's happening to you (OP).  I'm sure you won't be the last person it happens to either.  My husband is retired IT, and he's floated the theory to me that this bot wasn't created "in house" by Etsy guys.  Rather, it's outsourced code, and they are unable to fix it.  I assume either for technical or contractual reasons.  Part of me thinks it's a tinfoil hatty out there idea, and part of me goes "hmm...".

[PWOriginals]

@ChantillyAvenue 

Yep, the bots have opened the gates to another flood.

I never understood why they put "hand assembled" and "hand altered" under the same "made by seller" umbrella that includes "handcrafted," where those items are made from scratch.

They all show up as "made by seller" in listings, which follows Etsy's guidelines, but perhaps the bots are not programmed to look into those sub-categories.

[cindylouwho2]

@PWOriginals the bots are now looking for the item or some components, at least in some cases. Identical photos are not the only issue now. 

[PWOriginals]

@cindylouwho2 

This is very important information to know, since you're the one who has been exploring this in-depth.

Your observation needs to be highlighted or as an entirely separate thread as a warning to those who could be affected.

Folks listen to you, Cindy!

[ChantillyAvenue]

@cindylouwho2 

It's not a happy day when you realize things really are as grim as you suspected, whilst mixing wine and Xanax.

[PWOriginals]

I'm tagging @cindylouwho2 

who's gathering info on these take downs, but she's probably already aware of the hand assembled mess - just in case

[PWOriginals]

@digitaldoodlebug 

Exactly. Etsy's used that word for as long as I can remember - maybe even in their promos?

I do think, though, that it's the duty of sellers to watch what they're offering to gauge their market, lest listings become stale, copied, and over-produced - regardless of what Etsy considers to be unique.