Check All Your Listings' Delivery Estimates, Folks! Plus a Workaround...

[#1]

I'm in the UK and have all my listings set to 1-2 day processing time, and currently have all my international delivery profiles set to 10-30 day delivery.

I received an order from the US this morning. While I was preparing it, I noticed that Etsy has told the buyer to expect delivery by 'the 14th-16th December'.  This is on the order and on the listing itself.

So I thought I'd made a typo on the delivery profile. But no. Everything was correct. And even weirdly, this glitch ONLY applied to the US, and ONLY to this one particular listing. None of the other international destinations were affected by this glitch, and nor were any of the other 12 listings linked to this delivery profile.

After an hour of tearing my hair out and using some ultra-choice swear words, I found a workaround: I deleted the US from the delivery profile, and Saved. I then added it back in and Saved. And that did the trick.  Too late for this morning's order, of course, which I will no doubt have to refund when it doesn't arrive by the 16th December...

I cannot begin to describe how utterly effed off I am with Etsy at the moment, especially after what happened yesterday, but that's another story...

[dippeldiundscribble]

@cindylouwho2 „the delivery estimate resets when you ship.“

And that's exactly what shouldn't happen.

The delivery date calculated and displayed upon receipt of the order is legally binding in my country. (I can imagine that this also applies to other EU countries)

It may not be changed subsequently. Neither to an earlier nor to a later date.

@BaggieAggie „I shipped the order yesterday, Tuesday, but won't be marking it as shipped until Thursday, which is the day it has to be shipped by.“

This is how I have been doing it for several years in order to avoid the problem of unauthorized changes to the delivery time.

[TheHomespunLoft]

@cindylouwho2 

Oh Bummer.. I thought that might work! thanks for answering..

[ByVanillaMintDesigns]

Yeah same issue, I even set up new shipping profiles (to match with my postal service cut off dates), worked for one day and then it went back to Etsy's estimates which is misleading as my postal service cut off dates are different. Buyers will expect things to arrive before Christmas when they won't, and my shipping profiles calculate that. 

Heck I even pushed out my Canada shipping so nobody from there would think they can order and get items before Xmas. But Etsy is now saying they'll arrive earliest on the 19th, which obviously due to the strike they won't.

[BaggieAggie]

Right, that's it now. I've just received another order from the US with a bonkers delivery window - of 16-19th December, despite me having made all the necessary checks the other day. And all my other listings now have this ridiculous estimate for the US too. This order will be cancelled, and the US will be removed from all my shipping profiles. Well done, Etsy!

[cindylouwho2]

@BaggieAggie if you use the correct carrier and shipping method instead of "other", you are far less likely to have problems, as I mentioned previously.

Also, it's just the high end of the estimate that is inaccurate; the low end you just quoted is fine. 

[BaggieAggie]

The low end I quoted is not fine as their are two weekends to take into consideration. And using an actual carrier profile is not an option at all, as the delivery windows for those are even more unrealistic. As long as Other is available, I will use it. It works just fine for every country I ship to, even the US until now. 

@cindylouwho2 

[cindylouwho2]

@BaggieAggie "As long as Other is available, I will use it. It works just fine for every country I ship to, even the US until now." Etsy doesn't want you to use Other and will make it increasingly more difficult until they remove it from you entirely. So expect your other time frames to be screwed up as well - which you can't necessarily see right now as Etsy changes them in part based on the viewer's location. 

I'm not sure why you're finding this so difficult to understand.

[BaggieAggie]

This is clearly a glitch, @cindylouwho2 . Nothing more and nothing less. If Etsy doesn't want Other used, all they have to do is remove it. No need to make shipping 'increasingly difficult'.  They've done it before (I lost it for a long time), and then they sensibly reinstated it. 

So what you say makes no sense at all, not least because sellers will simply cancel orders when Etsy overrides their delivery estimates with their impossible-to-meet-ones, thus losing Etsy money. The only thing Etsy loves is money, so the last thing they'll be doing deliberately is encouraging sellers to cancel orders!

As this is obviously a glitch, and a major one, I will ask the mods to move this thread to the Technical Issues forum, and to alert the techies to this latest mess-up so that they can work on fixing it.

[cindylouwho2]

@BaggieAggie The only glitch is you having "other". It's gone for most UK sellers. That is unlikely to last, especially with you talking about it in the forum.

The shipping estimates are not a glitch; it is the way Etsy wants it. They talk about these things with investors & the media etc. They change seller-chosen times on purpose. It's been happening for years, but they have expanded it now. 

Etsy pays for orders that are late, so why would sellers refund? That is no longer a seller problem. If items arrive late and the buyer is unhappy, I help the buyer apply for a refund from Etsy.

Life's too short to be worrying about stuff like this for no reason.

[WishesontheWind]

@cindylouwho2  there is a glitch I believe like @BaggieAggie  suggests, perhaps she is using other as you suggest but that I don't believe is the problem, I have my profiles set to royal mail international, my profiles showing a 5 - 7 BUSINESS day arrival time with royal mail, recent order ordered today

Dispatches by 16 Dec, 2024, buyer expects delivery 18-20th to the US.   I have a 5 - 7 lead time so yes they are going by the earlier date for mailing which is annoying enough would be Fri 13th, . I will see what the dates show once I mail but currently the customer will believe is arriving in such a short time frame which is not correct if I choose to mail at the later date of the 16th!  

 

I don't like to mislead my customers as I expect the dates to show accurately, I figure my customers also figure they should be accurate  but they are not.   Dates for other orders using same profiles are also incorrect.  Oddly not them all, just some of them!  

@cindylouwho2

[cindylouwho2]

@WishesontheWind It's not a glitch. Etsy has been changing estimates for a few years now; it only started in the UK this year. 

It's based on their own tracking of packages, and yes it is sometimes wrong for some orders, as their predictive AI isn't that great. It will generally show earlier times than might be expected by experienced sellers.

In the OP's situation, Etsy is ignoring the long delivery window entirely. In your situation, Etsy is going by the shorter and longer carrier estimates and its own estimates, which again will be shorter than we might predict ourselves. But Royal Mail estimates (from what I have heard) are never anywhere near as long as the 30 days the OP wants. Your listings might show a faster window than you have entered for processing + carrier times, but not 20 business days wrong like the OP is complaining about. So yes, Etsy is dealing with "Other" differently by ignoring it. 

I've always had to manage buyer expectations when shipping from Canada - which takes way longer than Etsy wants it to! - so this changes nothing for me, expect if the order does arrive later, Etsy refunds my buyer on request and I don't have to deal with it. Works for me! 
: - )

We haven't had control of our shops here for years now. This is just one other example. 

[OneEyeCatStudio]

"We haven't had control of our shops here for years now. This is just one other example. "

A sad fact.

I would mind it a lot less if they actually did a good job of it.

But, unfortunately, in almost every case ... they don't.

[CarpetCollectionAU]

@cindylouwho2 I understand exactly what you are saying and it does seem that Etsy has extended the practice of "changing" EDD information from, primarliy US, to other Countries such as UK and Australia.

You advised that, as long as all the "ducks are in a row", a Seller should be covered by Seller Protection in the event of a claim of non-delivery by a EDD which is shorter than the one originally set by the Seller.

My issue is the $ 250 / $ 500 threshold for Seller protection. There are many Sellers whose product is way over these benchmarks. We also sell large or heavy items and the Postal / Courier options offered in Shipping Profiles just do not suit our product, especially for International Shipments. Therefore, we use "Other" and set our own EDDs, which Etsy shortens. I always try and manage Buyer expectations by sending my own message re Courier Service and Tracking information along with my EDDs. To date this has been successful.

But Etsy has become more aggressive with their "get it on time or ...." advertising and it is only a matter of time before someone buys a $ 3000.00 item and claims non-delivery because the latest EDD was shortened unrealistically.

For example, I use UPS and the only UPS Option in Shipping Profiles is UPS Worldwide Expedited (2-5 business days). But my class of UPS Service is different and, whilst delivery is usually within these parameters, there are some occasions, depending on Counrty and Customs, or, even if the parcel arrives in the Country and clears Customs, the actual location of the recipient, which may be remote or have limited delivery services, results in a longer delivery time.

I have noted that Etsy has added Ship Integra International Standard (3 - 12 Business Days) to available Shipping options in Profiles.

My Question is, how feasible / acceptable is it to use this on the Shipping Profile but continue to send by UPS with Tracking? 

Another possible "work around" may be to extend the Latest Processing date, I have 1 - 6 day Processing but I could change this to 2 - 10 Business Days, and, whilst I may actually consigning the parcel on Day 2, delay completing the Order and entering Tracking until Day 6? The overall outcome would be the same. The only downside I can see is that the parcel may arrive before I have even completed it and added Tracking.

[CarpetCollectionAU]

I have also noticed, in 3 of my 5 Shops, that Etsy is now adding additional information on the Shipping Profiles.

In a light blue Box, directly under the set Processing Time range, Etsy is adding "Your History"

In a Profile with Processing of 3 - 6 Days Etsy has added 

"Your History

1 - 4 Days"

The information attached to this is 

"This is based on your processing times over the past 120 days for orders that shipped using this shipping profile or custom shipping settings.

Tip: Make sure the ship date you set when completing an order is the date you hand off the package to the carrier. That way, the processing times we recommend for you—and the shipping updates we send your buyer—will be based on more accurate info."

I am wondering if Etsy is not using this data re history of Processing to over-ride a Seller's set Processing. This corresponds with my observations because the Shops with the issue of the different Etsy EDDs are also the 3 Shops which are now showing this information.

[cindylouwho2]

@CarpetCollectionAU "My issue is the $ 250 / $ 500 threshold for Seller protection." Unfortunately, I just don't see Etsy as the place to sell those things any more. I agree it's really hard to figure out which shipping options to use, even if you are not concerned about seller protection. You pretty much have to experiment to figure it out. 

Unfortunately, Etsy does not offer the UPS shipping option I use for the US during the Canada Post strike, so I have gone with one with a slightly shorter window (2-5 days vs. the actual 4-6 business days).  Etsy seems to be properly estimating my delivery times based on the real shipping service of 4-6 days and the buyer location, plus the time of year. 

E.g., I have an order today to Kentucky. My processing time is 1-2 business days, and the shipping profile option is 2-5 business days. So based on the carrier option on my profile, the estimated delivery should be December 11-17 (1 business day processing + 2 in transit to 2 days processing + 5 in transit). The actual delivery estimate on the order is December 12-21, longer than my actual shipping profile would indicate.

Prior to the strike, my estimates for US tracked packet via Canada Post were pretty good, except for one really early one out of dozens of orders. 

Yes, Etsy does say that they use our recent history as part of the calculations, although they say processing time won't be changed (but who can trust the Help files?) Interesting that you can see it! I think that would be helpful for sellers confused by this. E.g., the OP says they don't mark things as shipped until a few days after they actually ship. That means if buyers are indicating delivery dates via the emails Etsy sends or via feedback, Etsy does have a history to help base their estimates on. 

[CarpetCollectionAU]

@cindylouwho2 I think the possibility of how Buyer Feedback may be used by Etsy is one thing we, as Sellers, may be overlooking. Originally, I thought it was just additional "grist to the mill" for overall Shop Quality Score, but I can now see how this may also be used to assess / ammend Shipping EDDs.

This is particularly apparent given the "new" "Your History" information on the Shipping Profile Pages. Previously, there were "suggestions" made by Etsy. Now there is actual data. There is also an "Apply" button which indicates that Etsy wants Sellers to set Shipping Profiles to match Shipping History.

As far as selling product over $ 250.00 is concerned, we take all precautions we can to ensure safe delivery within timeframe. Fortunately, where the majority of our more expensive items are concerned, our Buyer's have been in contact with us prior to placing the Order and we do have an opportunity to establish a "relationship" which goes a long way towards preventing issues / claims.

Etsy still continues to be a viable selling platform for us and we just insure shipments. self insure the Shop and ensure Buyers are fully informed from enquiry, through processing and shipping and up to actual delivery.

[WishesontheWind]

thanks for the info @cindylouwho2 yes this was my suspicion, really mad though, the dates just dont add up, going by the later dates should be how it works.  makes it worse as dealing with some daft 1 star review due to this rubbish already, accusations of being a scammer basically, false promises,  do not buy blah blah!  Proves that customers expectations of course are going by the dates they are originally shown.  oh and a customer opening a  case and receiving full refund is not good enough for some RAGING!    But thankyou . 

[cindylouwho2]

@WishesontheWind in your example, did you tell the buyer to apply for a refund from Etsy when it didn't arrive in 15 days as the delivery window said it should? If that was the delivery date they saw, they have a right to be angry. 

When Etsy gives people wrong info, I usually give them the tools to get help from Etsy with the issue, while expressing my empathy & frustration that they got bad info from Etsy. 

Even when everything is done right, though, you can still get people who think you should ship today & deliver tomorrow, even when everything says otherwise. Don't let it get you down! 

[WishesontheWind]

@cindylouwho2thankyou,  I did express my sympathy that it hadn't arrived in time after they asked for a refund.  As it was only 1 day late at that point I asked if they could wait a little longer as busy season.  Thats my usual method which works and usually customers are more reasonable and happy to wait a little longer before I suggest opening a case,  however this one fired away and opened a case anyway, got a refund.     Anyway of course I'm familiar with all of this but yes I'm just a little over sensitive just now, even after all these years I still take that 1 star very personally!  I'll be fine tomorrow

[cindylouwho2]

@WishesontheWind I've gotten 5 stars from people I told to open a case, so I will continue to do so once delivery is late. Etsy says they refund if things arrive a day late, and I make sure any unhappy customers know about that. Deflect their annoyance to where it properly belongs! LOL

[BaggieAggie]

Back to this thread to add the following:

I've had to remove all international destinations from my shipping profiles, not just the US, as they're all affected now. Strange that not all listings are affected, though. Still, there is an upside to removing international shipping - no more having to cope with international buyers being charged domestic shipping costs in error, due to another of Etsy's numerous mess-ups.

And I see that the delivery timeframe on the affected US order I actually shipped, changed to what it should be, ie. mine, when I marked it as despatched.  So not only am I very upset, the buyer will be too if they notice it.

Etsy truly does have what must be the absolute worst programming department of any platform in the world.

[WishesontheWind]

Sorry you feel you have to remove international due to this   I  agree totally, its very confusing for both the customer and seller!  No getting away from that!  

Seems like they system has some AI choosing earlier dispatch dates over the later ones, during busy season and well any time of the year for that matter but more so just now, this is utter madness!  and as a side note some customers really do know how to work the system!

[Recyman]

I wrote about this in another thread, that it's happening to me. After ordering, unrealistic data is shown, after sending it changes to the correct one from my shipping profile. About 14 days ago I had a very angry customer who thought I was manipulating the data.

[Learningasidraw]

Hey, I have been having big issues with this type of thing on Etsy because of the international delivery options they offer, but everytime I post about it, people seem to tell me I am wrong, this that and the other, it's driving me nuts. May I ask how you managed to set the delivery time to up to 30 days? As this is the issue I have, the longest I can find is dpd at 4-11 days ( I used to have it set much higher when custom dates were available but that changed earlier this year ) 
Thanks

[ChestnuttVintage]

I had an order this morning.  I'm in the UK, buyer is in the US.  Etsy information attached to the order is as follows - that's actually not possible, is it.

Dispatches by 16 Dec, 2024

Buyer expects delivery by: 16-20 Dec