Former_Member
Not applicable

they are at it again...

my news just reported that the cpsa has now banned ATVs and motorcycles made for kids under age 12 because they have lead.

lets just lock our kids up in a closet naked and duck tape their mouths shut until they turn 12.
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Re: they are at it again...

darn, my kids are over the age of twelve!

What to do, what to do? ;)
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Re: they are at it again...

All children must be raised in plastic bubbles.
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Former_Member
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Re: they are at it again...

dang, and i had so planned to feed my son his first atv when he turns 10.

:)


did the CPSC ban them, or is it that they fall under the regulation, and have not been exempted, yet. i heard a buzz that they were up for exemption.

seems if they are going to exempt video games and such... but i know that no one is selling them. because of the law. a gal pal of mine works in the industry and mentioned on myspace that her store was affected. she's in MD.


i think it's a little humorous that something that's got far more dangers than a kid eating the fender, or licking the exhaust pipe, is being banned for lead content.

not funny, ha ha... but, just like... WHOA!

hopefully it all gets straightened out soon, cause i really do plan to get my son his first motorcycle when he turns 10. we have a deal.
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Former_Member
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Re: they are at it again...

Their request for exemption was apparently denied.

http://www.northwestcyclereport.com/2009/02/24/lost-atv-and-motorcycle-related-economic-value-could-...
"The new lead rules that have banned the sales of many youth all-terrain vehicles and motorcycles could lead to $1 billion in lost economic value in 2009 for the industry, predicts the Motorcycle Industry Council."

http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia09/brief/leadexclusion.pdf

Here's a 43 page release from the CPSC/ There are the points I thought most pertinent, speaking specifically of the motorbike people's request for exemption, it says:
"The Commission believes that the clear language of the statute which provides that it must determine, on the basis of the best-available, objective, peer-reviewed, scientific evidence that lead in such product or material will not “result in the absorption of any lead into the human body…” (emphasis added) does not allow the Commission any discretion to consider materials or products whereby exposure to the lead-containing elements under reasonably foreseeable use and abuse conditions would result in any absorption of lead, including through swallowing, mouthing, breaking, and the aging of the product. While Congress focused on ingestion by using the words “swallowing, mouthing, and breaking,” the use or abuse of a children’s product containing lead in excess of the lead limits could lead to the absorption of lead from hand to mouth contact, as the Commission has recognized for many years. Had Congress not included the use of the word “any”, the omission, relying, inter alia, on the advice of its toxicologists, engineers and human factors experts, would have had the authority to have considered whether the requirement could be met if there were some low amount of absorption of lead, resulting in “no meaningful increase” in children’s blood levels, thereby constituting a negligible risk. While there is no established threshold for adverse effectsof lead, peer-reviewed scientific literature suggests ways of assessing the risk to children given child-specific exposure routes, and taking into account the current knowledge of lead toxicology. ….
Physiologically, if there is absorption of lead into the human body, blood lead levels will increase, but whether that has significance from a health standpoint remains a question. However, the addition of the word “any” made it explicit that Congress had already made this risk assessment and legislated that any absorption of lead, no matter how insignificant, would be deemed unacceptable….
Accordingly, the Commission must follow the clear language of the statute and cannot grant any exclusion that does not meet this requirement."

That pretty much tears it for the motor-bike people, the BMX bicycle people and probably the ball-point pen people as well.

From the same documents:
MSDS sheets are not sufficient to satisfy the representative testing criteria… rather, the showing necessary to obtain a determination must be based on objectively reasonable and representative testing of the material or product
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Former_Member
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Re: they are at it again...

Is the government totally stupid? Or are they going to forbid kids under 12 to ride in cars because the cars have lead in them as well? This has gotten totally out of hand....
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Former_Member
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Re: they are at it again...

Yes, it does seem the government is totally stupid, crochetgal!
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Former_Member
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Re: they are at it again...

And they get worse with each passing day. I've always said "When they locked up the fools, they locked up the WRONG fools!!"
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Former_Member
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Re: they are at it again...

my libertarian brain hurts...
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Former_Member
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Re: they are at it again...

Oh good grief.
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Former_Member
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Re: they are at it again...

My brain hurts too. I feel like I want to cry every time I read one of these things.

I just don't understand how they are letting it go this far. It's mind boggling.
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ValeriesGallery
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Re: they are at it again...

And will all the school buses be recalled, scrapped and remade? At the tax payers expense...
What about the schools themselves? The classrooms, chairs and desks and chalkboards and.. and... and.. and....

Well, I guess since kids can't have books, they may not have schools either.

Sorry.. I am very cranky today.
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Former_Member
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Re: they are at it again...

Not only will kids 12 years old and younger have to live in a plastic bubble naked, they can't have have any reading material/books and no toys to keep them busy.

What next is the Government going to do?

Collect kids 12 years old and younger and detain them in government daycare and won't release them back to their parents until they reach the age of 13.....

The CPSC and Government have gone crazy..........
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Former_Member
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Re: they are at it again...

You're going to make sure that duct tape is lead free, right. Oh and the plastic bubble has no BPA.
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Former_Member
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Re: they are at it again...

What about automobiles, swingsets, metal fences around yards, school buses, zippers . . .

Is everyone certain that they don't have lead paint anywhere in them?
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Former_Member
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Re: they are at it again...

valerie, you were thinking exactly what I was - sorry , I didn't get so far as to read your post.
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Former_Member
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Re: they are at it again...

This may not be very popular,but IMHO most children under 12 shoud not be driving a motorcycle or an ATV because the are motor vehicles and children can get seriously hurt ,not because of the lead content,but it is a fast moving piece of machinery,and and not all children have the strength and/or common sense to control them properly.
However,I do agree:where does it end???What about houses in older neighborhoods,that still have lead water pipes,physical contact with items in daily life that may contain lead...is the government going to ban everything that could contain lead, on the off-chance it might come into contact with children...?
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Re: they are at it again...

ugh.
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Re: they are at it again...

Reminder...every single one of those folks (and there aren't many of them) have been elected by YOU and ME.
The crap job that politicians are doing is because we have given them the nod. LOOK at who is being elected and the things they are doing to insert government into your life.
Nothing matters but our vote and our voice is powerful.
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Former_Member
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Re: they are at it again...

beenadolls, you bring up a very good point. Several individuals and groups have crunched the numbers and found that the recall system *worked* and that no kids were hurt by the toys under the recalls. BUT... most children get their lead intake from older paint, pipes, etc. While I'm not advocating to *keep the lead in toys*, I think that efforts and resources would be better spent getting the lead out of those sources, rather than regulating industries with very good track records.

While I don't like ATVs and mini motorcycles personally, there are many out there who are enthusiasts. As long as parents supervise their kids, who am I to judge? And perhaps they will become vocal critics of the failures of the Act. The more consumers who understand the dire implications, the better.
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Former_Member
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Re: they are at it again...

knottybabywear, I would think twice about that- You should first test the adhesive on the duct tape for harmful chemicals!
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Re: they are at it again...

Had Congress not included the use of the word “any”, the omission, relying, inter alia, on the advice of its toxicologists, engineers and human factors experts, would have had the authority to have considered whether the requirement could be met if there were some low amount of absorption of lead, resulting in “no meaningful increase” in children’s blood levels, thereby constituting a negligible risk.

Ah, someone gets it....Words do have meaning. Although those who wrote the bill don't know that..
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Re: they are at it again...

knottybabywear says:
my news just reported that the cpsa has now banned ATVs and motorcycles made for kids under age 12 because they have lead.

lets just lock our kids up in a closet naked and duck tape their mouths shut until they turn 12.
-
kids were licking the bikees.
licking.
seriously,
kids who would lick bikes
will lick anything
and can die from something 'out there'
at any time

where are their parents
'junior, don't lick that, dirty!'

don't get me started.
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Former_Member
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Re: they are at it again...

My guess is that they'll want to cut down trees next.

If a kid is going to lick his ATV or bike, he *MAY* get the idea to climb a tree. And, in doing so, he *MAY* fall. Since gravity works relatively well, that fall will result in the kid hitting the ground, at which time he *MAY* get hurt. Therefore, trees are dangerous.
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Former_Member
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Re: they are at it again...

This is all absolutely freaking nuts. It physically hurts when I think that one of my Senators (well, currently my ONLY Senator) was one of the people who helped get this legislation put into place. It started with protecting children from extreme lead levels in imported toys and it's come to protecting children from living.

Sheesh.

I promise you, not all Minnesotans are crazy. Really.
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