Seller Protection with DC

[EndlessAlley]

I was just reading the guidelines for Seller Protection with DC when I came across this one requirement.... "Give the buyer tracking information. If tracking isn't available, for example in the case of international orders, be prepared to provide proof that the item was shipped."

Does this mean that even though I've paid for postage for 1st Class International through Etsy I still need a receipt from the post office?

[Former_Member]

If shipped through Etsy there would be a record of the shippment and you would be OK.

It has been a long time, but doesn't paypal require proof of delivery, which is even harder for a seller as many countries do not have delivery confirmation?

[PinchtheMuse]

When you buy international first class you get a customs number. That usually gets scanned while in the USA. I always give that number to the buyer explaining they can usually see the scans while the package is in the US.


As griffincat stated if bought through Etsy that number is "in the system".
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Note seller protection only applies to certain countries-- from the help article:
http://www.etsy.com/help/article/483#transactions_sellers

For direct checkout transactions, the Item(s) must be shipped to one of the following countries: Australia, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Japan, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom, USA.
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From the Seller Protection thread in site help:

http://www.etsy.com/teams/7718/site-help/discuss/10975623/

Julian Wong says Highlighted Post

beesocks from beesocks says
my question is this-
I ship internationally with First Class, there is no proof of delivery or tracking, I take my chances that there won't be any paypal protection when I do this, does this mean that the Etsy protection will work the same way? That is no protection without tracking and proof of delivery?

*************
Hi beesocks,

This doesn't mean your transaction is not eligible for protection. For items shipped internationally, you'll be required to provide proof of shipping. Proof of delivery is required for items shipped within the USA.

For an item priced above $250 USD, use a trackable shipping method that provides signature confirmation at delivery.

Posted at 4:25 pm Sep 26, 2012 EDT - Report this post

[DondiLights]

There is a bar code on the shipping label/customs form that your mail carrier is supposed to scan when they get it from your box or if you put it in a public box it shows it is scanned and accepted at your local P.O. That should be proof that you did your part and shipped it. I haven't shipped many items internationally but your label should still be tracked until it leaves the US. Is this everyone else's experience? Still learning the shipping on this end.......

[EndlessAlley]

Thanks everyone! I wasn't sure whether the customs number would count as proof or I would actually need the post office to scan the bar code when I was dropping off my package and have a receipt from them to count as proof.

Looks like there is still some question as to what counts as proof in Etsy's eyes.

[Former_Member]

when you go to the post office there is a small form you can get ... i forget the exact name but it is like a proof of shipment on international package... it was inexpensive.
I don't bother with it now because I ship registered mail and so that comes with an actual registered mail # (I ship this way because many countries require my type items to go registered mail.... but registered is expensive... I would not ship that way unless I had to )

[DondiLights]

When the package is picked up from your home mailbox the bar code is scanned and when it gets to your local PO (either by your postal deliverer or you dropping it in the box) it is scanned in the PO as "Accepted at ___________PO. That should be proof that you mailed it. Any thoughts?

[ohmama]

I feel it is important to insure packages also. Especially if they are going to an international address.

When I ship to a business or an apartment here in the US, I require signature confirmation. When printing an etsy label, you can get the insurance at the same time and the cost is very reasonable.

If I had a buyer who did not receive the package regardless of proof that I sent it, I feel you would still need to refund. If they sign a statement that they did not receive the package, insurance will cover the loss. Everyone is happy for just a dollar or two in insurance.

[Former_Member]

Insurance is a good thing, but the cost does not make good business sense. We quit insuring all packages many years ago, a savings of thousands of dollars at this point. We still pay claims, but they are so few and far between that we are hundreds of dollars ahead every year by self insuring.

You have to do the math and see what you are paying for insurance a year and what you are collecting in return. If you are a good packer, you will lose much less than 1% to shipping losses.

[PinchtheMuse]

Griffin, I think self insuring is a good goal for sure, but for a smaller business starting out a few bucks for third party insurance can make a lot of sense.

Loss and damage can be calculated in averages, BUT sometimes you could have your 1% damage/loss for the year all in one month. For some that could be devastating to their business.

I use a mix of self insurance and third party insurance depending on a few factors.

I will use Mary's shop as an example, I don't think she will mind....
If she is purely custom/made to order AND experiencing growth AND in the middle of expansion AND she has three large orders get run over by a mail truck......well, that could be way more than anything she has "saved" back for self insurance. Even if she could finesse everything "eventually" to replace or refund...it could result in unhappy customers....bad feedback or lost future referrals and/or business.

Or she may be more focused on other aspects of her business that self insuring is something she does not want to focus on and take on at the moment---and it *could* make financial sense for her business at the moment.

Every shop should look into self insuring, and for most it will or does make sense, but it is important to look at all factors. In my humble opinion, anyway.

[ohmama]

Some good points here. Obviously it depends on what cost of product you are shipping as well as what it cost to insure.

Most of my hats start in the $100 range and go up to $325. Insurance that will protect against loss from damage or not arriving to the address, aka lost in space, runs a little over $1 per $100 in coverage.

With that in mind, if a package goes missing or is damaged and I need to reimburse the $100. out of pocket, it will hurt. If it's more than one hat, the pain can be great, lol! Sometimes I get an order for 3 or 4 hats at a time.

The cost of insurance is not specified in my listings but is included in either my shipping price or the product itself so like all business expenses, I don't consider it out of pocket. If I were to reduce my listing prices by $1, I doubt it will matter to the buyer. It is a business expense to have insurance and the cost is very low.

If I self insure and put that $1 aside that would have gone for regular insurance, I would have to sell 100 hats to pay for one claim. How would that be to my advantage?

[Former_Member]

If I self insure and put that $1 aside that would have gone for regular insurance, I would have to sell 100 hats to pay for one claim. How would that be to my advantage?

Mary,

It is just a matter of how many claims have you had. If you have more than one claim for every 100 sales, insurance is to your advantage. If you are going 2-3 hundred sales without a claim, then the advantage is to keep the insurance money and self insure. In all honesty, I think there are 300-500 sales for me before something goes missing. Damage does not happen as we are good packers, and I never feel as though it would be covered anyway. It is a numbers game with chance and luck. In know in our case I feel good about self insuring and it seems to work. We use delivery confirmation on everything as well as signature confirmation on the more expensive items.

[ohmama]

For me, it's a matter of having the security in knowing I am covered for something I cannot predict.

As I said before, the cost is low and covered as a business expense. I never was one to risk or gamble with my reputation or business. I hope those who self insure are as pleased with their decision as I am.

I am glad that delivery confirmation is included with no additional cost in printing a label, though too often it cannot be reliable for telling you if the package has actually found its way to the right address. The thing that will do that is signature confirmation so I do take advantage of including this option when shipping to a business or apartment address. By the way, the cost of signature confirmation is as much, or more than insurance. I feel both are a wise investment.