PMC Questions, General Metal Clay Chat, Anyone?

[Petaluna]

I don't think I can join the Etsy PMC/metal clay teams since I don't have any in my shop yet, I'm 3 weeks into a 4 week class and wish I had more time to experiment before deciding whether to take the leap to buy a kiln and more of this expensive silver clay, particularly if it keeps going up in price. The bronze clay and copper art clay look promising.

I haven't decided yet if I love it or hate it. Last Sunday after smushing it around for 4 hours, getting a migraine and having nothing interesting come of it, I figured I'd wasted my money, but last night I got some fired bronze and silver back, and now I'm much more interested. Sticking out the learning curve, and investing the time and money into that seems to be the main hurdle. I also weighed some unfired pieces and did the math, and while it's spendier than sterling sheet, the work time might be less, and I think I can still sell small finished pieces in silver at reasonably acceptable prices. Unless the cost of the clay goes up significantly.

Thoughts on the potential of this medium going forward, considering the new clays that are coming out, new instruction, costs?? Particular kiln recommendations if I decide to take the leap? I was looking at the front-loading, digital, programmable ones, but they start at like $630. *gulp*

Also, any suggestions for online forums where I can get info and discuss PMC?

[MetalSmitten760]

Metal clay (MC) is a fantastic medium, attracting even longtime metalsmiths. As with other media, there are some phenomenal talents in the MC arena. I'm a big fan of Hadar Jacobson www.artinsilver.com

I began with silver clay 11 months ago and haven't looked back. Apparently you can fire small pieces with a little handheld torch, but I've never tried. I found my Paragon kiln on craigslist for around $300.

There is a wealth of information available to you. Search YouTube for "metal clay" videos. Several teams here on Etsy you can join:
http://www.etsy.com/teams/5877/etsy-metalclay
http://www.etsy.com/teams/6043/metal-clay-heads

Classes:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MetalClayClasses/

Beginner Info:
http://www.metalclayacademy.com/metal-clay-resources/metal-clay-beginners-information.html

Also, many of the commercial sites have "learning" pages; a few that come to mind:
www.RioGrande.com
www.CoolTools.us
http://www.artclayworld.com/tips_and_techniques.php

Good luck!

[Petaluna]

thanks so much for that! I have seen a few of those sites already, and have been chatting a little with Janet Alexander through her educational website, she mentioned Hadar Jacobson and what she learned from her, particularly about firing bronze clay successfully, so I have looked at a little bit of her work and recommendations.

I have a limited budget for tools and equipment that I need to use wisely on things that will pay for themselves in eventual sales, so I've been going back and forth on whether to continue with the PMC and make the investment, or head back toward traditional metalwork which I started a long time ago and shelved for many years. In that event I'd like to get set up for vacume casting or maybe get a hydraulic die press. I wish my PMC class was a few weeks longer!! So far I haven't talked to anyone who tried PMC and decided they hated it (though I felt that way at the beginning). ;)

You were lucky to get a good kiln for $300! I've been searching Craigslist and eBay, but so far no luck. I will probably have to buy one new, and I've been looking at the various Paragon models along with this Evenheat one:

http://www.clay-king.com/kilns/evenheat_kilns/evenheat_kingpin_88.html

So far that site has the best prices on kilns that I've seen. I don't think I need the bead doors or really even a window, but I would like a front-loader that's versatile enough to do enameling and maybe minor glass work in the future. I wonder if I could fire small porcelain pendants in one of these... hmmm... I think I'm talking myself into it.

I also think I'd want to make my own texture plates, been reading about some of the various techniques for that. I'm not crazy about most of the commercial patterns I'm finding.

I applied to metal clay heads, but they want people with PMC work to show, which I don't have yet, so we'll see what happens.

[Former_Member]

I like the Evenheat Hot Shot kiln. It is not a front loader, but the chamber is larger. You can use it to slump wine bottles and for recycled glass work, which is a big plus if you are concerned about cost of materials (and who isn't?!) Also, you can fit ten inch bowl molds in there, which opens up a lot of possibilities. The price is not that much higher if you go to Warner Criv. to buy it. http://www.warner-criv.com/product.aspx?id=96-A1702

Only mentioning it because you are considering glass work, which is definitely addictive! Clay King definitely has the best prices I've found on the PMC. I sell my work at a local store, and oddly enough, the recycled glass is selling much better than the PMC and art glass, so when you choose your kiln, keep in mind what you may want to do in the future.

[Petaluna]

Thanks so much for that info! It's interesting that you said the recycled glass stuff is moving better. I think rustic simple appeals to a lot of people (I'm guessing at what recycled glass jewelry looks like). I was thinking of doing a line of more casual bronze and copper pieces in the clay.

Working with glass in the future is kind of a big question mark, but it's worth considering the top loader just in case. I thought I'd read something about why a front loading kiln was better for PMC, it might have had something to do with having to wait until it's cooled down before opening if it's a top loader, which I guess with glass you have to do anyway, but not with metal. I don't know if there would be a scenario where I would need my objects out of it pronto. :) Definitely worth considering, though, thanks!

[WearableByDesign]

Petaluna, speaking as a metal clay addict who does traditional silver work, I love the versatility of metal clay. I can do so much more with it (without heavy and expensive equipment) than I can with sheet and wire.

If you just want to get started and be able to fire your pieces and maybe do a bit of enamelling, or Keum Boo, you might consider an Ultralite Kiln. They're great because they're electric and you can keep constant heat for the required time, unlike torch firing.

http://www.wholelottawhimsy.com/wo/content/shopping/product;jsessionid=abcHMXdfaGPvtcRRI0hht?c=44299...

[Petaluna]

Thanks, wearable. Have you used that little ultralite yourself? I would like to do keum-boo at some point, and it's a smaller up front investment. I'll have some silver clay leftover from this class, too, that I know I won't be able to use up before it's over. I was actually thinking of asking the instructor if she'd fire it fore me at a later date if I paid a studio fee or something. I'm assuming you can't fire bronze in the ultralite (?).

I really appreciate your input as a traditional metalsmith, I am really starting to see the possibilities, as much as I love traditional metalwork, which I'm just now getting back to. I've been making so much delicate jewelry lately just because of the cost of the materials, and I sometimes feel a little less confident about durability, which was my main concern about PMC after cost, but I think with proper firing, the new clays are stronger. I'm still unsure about rings, though I making one right now as a learning project.

Speaking of which.... I want to attach a large-ish domed oval upside down, cup style, to a thick band, so the area where the dome meets the band is pretty small. What would you suggest for the best bond? The 2 pieces are dried, and I forgot to ask the instructor about this before leaving the last session, and it's got to be ready to get fired at the start of our last class next Wed. Four weeks was really not enough. I need another 4. Apparently this was a shorter PMC class than typical.

Thanks again!

[WearableByDesign]

Petaluna,

I haven't used it myself, but I was present at a class where my friend used it. She had a full size kiln, but found this so easy and quick that she used it for small items. I'm not sure about firing any of the other clays in it, but I would assume that any clay that can be torch fired, will do well in this kiln, because you can control the temp and the time.

As to your attaching a cup to a band only at two contact points, I would suggest putting two small strips inside the cup, the same size as the width of the band, so that you have more surface contact with the band. Attach the strips the same way as you will attach the cup to the band by using slip, syringe, or simply wet both pieces pretty well and let the water soak in for a minute or so, and then rub them together until they start to stick really well.

[Petaluna]

Thanks, Wearable! Actually, the cup is going to attach at one point, on the convex side, so the "bowl" is facing up, not down. I do have a syringe of clay that I bought, which I haven't used yet, maybe that is the perfect consistency to smush around the outside of the contact area a little bit for some extra support there?

I've got so much "day job" work this weekend, and I just want to play with the PMC... :(

[WearableByDesign]

Sorry I misunderstood. If the cup is facing up, yes, use the syringe to give lots of contact with the ring shank. the more, the sturdier!

I like to use a small, damp paintbrush to smooth the syringe out, once applied.

[Petaluna]

Groovy, thanks! I hope this one turns out. So much more I want to make. We're having a cash crunch over here, and I'm trying to decide if or how to tell my husband I want to invest in more jewelry supplies.. ;)