MintedSugar
Inspiration Seeker

Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

A few times in the last few years, as Etsy started ramping up its new policies, I started to get infringement notices however everything I sell is handmade. They are made to be used in planners, more specifically Louis Vuitton planners. This is the greatest line that gets me customers, because they are looking for inserts for their LV planner. Etsy believed I was selling counterfeit items and removed several listings giving me final warnings along the way and along the way I took care of them having them re-instated the listing. 

 

Now the star seller program comes out and my badges are permanently removed. Not to mention that when I first started getting these infringement claims I was a top 1% seller with a pretty significant reach since then my store has seen a 95% decrease in traffic and of course sales. Is this because Etsy's algorithm pushed me down to the bottom because they think I am risk? 

 

As if it isn't frustrating enough to be messing with what my family and I depend on, they somehow have absolutely no control over the star seller program? 

 

There is nowhere to reach out for this, except for this forum, I think as business owners that have sensitive information stored on Etsy we should be allowed to retrieve any and all information Etsy has collected from us. 

 

I appreciate any and all advice/help/direction/anything lol that cn help. 

 

Thank you for reading my rant! 

 

 

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
2 Likes
1 Solution

Accepted Solutions
MintedSugar
Inspiration Seeker

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

All right well thank you everyone for your helpful comments! Even the ones that were less than nice. Either way, it was helpful. I went and removed all mentions of said brands. I did read up a little on it about fair use, including nominative and comparative advertising.

Unfortunately, if you are in the camp where you believe it is illegal to "make money off someone else's brand" then I would suggest you do study up a little. there are few things that are protected under "fair use" and describing ones products as "compatible with" a trademark is considered fair use. Comparing your product with that of a trademarked product (ie. better quality paper than xyz trademark) is considered fair use under comparative advertising. Not to mention although LV also sells what I sell they are not known that product, so we are not in direct competition.  

I understand where Etsy is coming from, if I were running it I would probably side with the big guys too and not risk huge lawsuits, but then don't pretend like we are a community and we got each other's back when they don't, at least not when it matters. I get that it is MY responsibility to know the laws and I just wish that Etsy was a little bit clearer when it came to messing with your business. If I get a policy violations clearly tell me what I did and the clear course of action and a way to dispute. (I’m sure it’s hidden somewhere in their million articles.) Who wants to really invest their time and money to run and Etsy shop when it can all be shut down if Etsy decides you may have done something wrong. 

Also for context, Etsy flagged the listing, only one out of 60+ with the same descriptions and tags, I messaged them and the returned saying the violation had been reversed and that I didn’t have to do anything else and the listing was re-instated. So… that would make one believe that I did nothing wrong.

 

I know this is long but one more thing straight from Etsy’s policies, more specifically Intellectual Property Policy

*Sellers are responsible for ensuring they have all necessary rights to their content and that they are not infringing or violating any third party’s rights by posting it.

Nowhere does it state that Etsy has its own rules or policies on this subject. It clearly states, follow the law and nothing else.

Anyway, I know Etsy is going to do what they want and the little guy can do almost nothing about it, except one day become the good guy.

Good luck everyone! Happy selling. I’ve included some examples that I found from different areas of the internet.

 

  • A label indicating “containing Takara genuine sweet cooking rice wine” on “soup stock” was considered descriptive fair use because it merely indicated the raw material used in the soup stock.
  • Use of the BMW brand by a third party for the purpose of indicating to the public that he sells, repairs, or maintains BMW vehicles, or even that he is specialized in such activities, will not infringe BMW’s rights provided the mark is not used in such a way as to create the impression that there is a commercial connection (e.g., affiliation) between the third party and the proprietor of the mark.

View solution in original post

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
2 Likes
Reply
Loading...
27 Replies
anythinggoeshere
Conversation Maker

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

@MintedSugar If you are using the words LV in your listings that is why the listings were tagged.  You can’t use another company’s name to make money.  You are marketing using their repretation and success.  The bottom line is using their name has lead you to this point.

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
5 Likes
Reply
Loading...
anythinggoeshere
Conversation Maker

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

I searched and saw the variety of ways sellers market their accessory products without mentioning LV.

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
1 Like
MintedSugar
Inspiration Seeker

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

Could I ask what search term you used? To research new keywords. 

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
0 Likes

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

A search in your shop for "Louis Vuitton" shows 21 results.  You need to remove those listings immediately and remove any mention of Louis Vuitton.  You are capitalizing on his name and that is infringement and is illegal.

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
3 Likes
Reply
Loading...

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

"Louis Vuitton"---Bingo

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
2 Likes
Reply
Loading...
MWCowhideDesigns
Inspiration Seeker

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

The same happened to me! 🤬 This was far before this Star Seller stuff even happened.  
There is no place to get information from Etsy and only general computer generated responses from Etsy!

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
1 Like
Reply
Loading...
anythinggoeshere
Conversation Maker

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

What was the take down notice for?

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
0 Likes

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

Do you have permission to use LV in marketing even though you're not selling their items but as compatible?    If not, you'll either need to resolve it with the company as to what their requirements are and pay any licensing fees or simply list the products without the brand name, just sizing that matches and even that may be patented.

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
2 Likes
Reply
Loading...

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

@MWCowhideDesigns Etsy clearly outlines this policy. You only have to read it. It is our responsibility to understand the laws that pertain to our business. I don’t understand why sellers even need to be told they can’t make money off someone else’s name and IP. It’s common sense. And don’t you read the news? Cases of this nature are always being reported. 

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
3 Likes
Reply
Loading...
MintedSugar
Inspiration Seeker

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

Could you link or send me where this is stated.

 

And I disagree that its common sense, it's a legal matter. Maybe to a lawyer, it might be common sense, but not an Etsy seller. 

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
0 Likes
Amaradorn
Community Maker

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

By simply using the name 'louis vuitton' as tags in your listings you are infringing (unless of course you have a licencing agreement). It matters not whether your products are handmade or otherwise. It's the use of that trademarked name that is the problem. Etsy are not going to help you whilst you continue to infringe on another company's intellectual property.

When I see posts like this I often urge the shop owner to put their shop on vacation and go and learn about Intellectual property (specifically trademarks in your case) and then you will be able to understand where you are going wrong and risking your entire business.

ETA: you are also infringing on the Kate Spade brand too.

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
4 Likes
Reply
Loading...

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

I'm pretty sure Filofax is a brand name too.

 

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
2 Likes
Amaradorn
Community Maker

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

@moonbeamgifts yes it is. Good catch! I didn't see that one.

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
1 Like
MintedSugar
Inspiration Seeker

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

I did exactly that minus the vacation mode, don't need that much time. Thank you!

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
0 Likes
KissKissFlorals
Conversation Maker

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

You also need to list your production partner for these unless you are printing and punching them yourself. 

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
1 Like
Reply
Loading...

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

LV insert refills for their agenda are $110. I can see why they don't want you using their name to sell a knock off refill pack. Etsy has  stepped up to remove designer counterfeits. Apparently they can do that and not risk their "IP safe harbor status". I feel someone must've lit a legal "or else" fire under their boots to get this to happen. I have noted lately sellers with IP issues complaining of permanent SS removals and reserves being placed on their accounts...so maybe Etsy is addressing IP infringement at least in a roundabout way. Are any other planners the size and hole placement of the LV agendas or is that some how proprietary too?

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
3 Likes
Reply
Loading...
anythinggoeshere
Conversation Maker

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

The shop has refillers for other high end planners also.

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
1 Like

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

I am unsure where the law lies on "fits" items. Jeep sells floor mats and there are floor mats that fit Jeeps..but they have Jeep no place on  them and may have to sell by the size and totally skip the Fits a Jeep Blah de blah and not use the name Jeep at all to sell them.. That is something that you need to research with a lawyer. On ETSY if the get a DMCA removal notice from LV or decide your item is counterfeit it is gone. You would need to fight that out with LV in court to prove you have the right to use their TM name to sell your refills and that is doubtful. Etsy doesn't get into legalities. If a TM holder cmplains they remove it. You can't counterclaim a TM removal.

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
1 Like
Reply
Loading...
MintedSugar
Inspiration Seeker

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

All right well thank you everyone for your helpful comments! Even the ones that were less than nice. Either way, it was helpful. I went and removed all mentions of said brands. I did read up a little on it about fair use, including nominative and comparative advertising.

Unfortunately, if you are in the camp where you believe it is illegal to "make money off someone else's brand" then I would suggest you do study up a little. there are few things that are protected under "fair use" and describing ones products as "compatible with" a trademark is considered fair use. Comparing your product with that of a trademarked product (ie. better quality paper than xyz trademark) is considered fair use under comparative advertising. Not to mention although LV also sells what I sell they are not known that product, so we are not in direct competition.  

I understand where Etsy is coming from, if I were running it I would probably side with the big guys too and not risk huge lawsuits, but then don't pretend like we are a community and we got each other's back when they don't, at least not when it matters. I get that it is MY responsibility to know the laws and I just wish that Etsy was a little bit clearer when it came to messing with your business. If I get a policy violations clearly tell me what I did and the clear course of action and a way to dispute. (I’m sure it’s hidden somewhere in their million articles.) Who wants to really invest their time and money to run and Etsy shop when it can all be shut down if Etsy decides you may have done something wrong. 

Also for context, Etsy flagged the listing, only one out of 60+ with the same descriptions and tags, I messaged them and the returned saying the violation had been reversed and that I didn’t have to do anything else and the listing was re-instated. So… that would make one believe that I did nothing wrong.

 

I know this is long but one more thing straight from Etsy’s policies, more specifically Intellectual Property Policy

*Sellers are responsible for ensuring they have all necessary rights to their content and that they are not infringing or violating any third party’s rights by posting it.

Nowhere does it state that Etsy has its own rules or policies on this subject. It clearly states, follow the law and nothing else.

Anyway, I know Etsy is going to do what they want and the little guy can do almost nothing about it, except one day become the good guy.

Good luck everyone! Happy selling. I’ve included some examples that I found from different areas of the internet.

 

  • A label indicating “containing Takara genuine sweet cooking rice wine” on “soup stock” was considered descriptive fair use because it merely indicated the raw material used in the soup stock.
  • Use of the BMW brand by a third party for the purpose of indicating to the public that he sells, repairs, or maintains BMW vehicles, or even that he is specialized in such activities, will not infringe BMW’s rights provided the mark is not used in such a way as to create the impression that there is a commercial connection (e.g., affiliation) between the third party and the proprietor of the mark.
Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
2 Likes
Reply
Loading...

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

This one actually isn't on Etsy - they just have to follow what the filer says (which would be LV in this case).

I would suggest you contact LV and see what they require (or if they will allow) for compatible product listing.    Gerber does it for those who sell embroidered baby clothes, there's just a very specific way you have to write the description that says you're not representing Gerber as a company.

LV might come back and say no, give you a price on a license fee or tell you what terminology they need but it's worth a shot.

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
1 Like

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

I think it is LV specifically.  I have 2 authentic LV bags that I needed organizers for.  I actually purchased one of them off of Etsy.  Instead of using LV in my search, I looked up noe and neverfull (the name of the bags).  I'm not even sure using those names in title description is legal on Etsy.  Could have been searchable from all the reviews stating what bag they used each one for.  I'll have to see.  

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
1 Like
Reply
Loading...

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

Here is the link to Etsys IP policy. I think you may be interpreting the laws too loosely. And is it really a fight you want to get into with either the Etsy bots or the TM holder? 

https://www.etsy.com/ca/legal/ip/

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
1 Like
Reply
Loading...
MintedSugar
Inspiration Seeker

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

That's the same one I had read. I am not sure where you read what the IP laws are on there, they just say follow them. 

I am not interpreting the laws loosely, when you're a business owner you gotta know when to take a risk and when to give in. When it comes to Etsy, clearly I am not going to fight it. Etsy doesn't make me enough money for that type of time. I've spent enough already on this. 

I also think it's important to know what is right. I am not breaking any laws in any way, and I am ok knowing that I am just caving to Etsy's rules, I can sleep at night knowing that I am not "making money off of someone else's name."

I don't understand why some people business owners are so easy to follow what is "common sense", this is business and our laws are the reason why we can have so many variations of cola even it doesn't make sense. 

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
0 Likes

Re: Violations that were issued in error are now being flagged as final warning

Jump to solution

I can still see Loius Vuitton naming in your shop. I'm pretty sure you have to remove the tags too... I mean I can totally read Louis Vuitton stuff all over your shop. That is indeed still marketing and using thier intellectual property 

Translate to English There was a problem fetching the translation.
1 Like
Reply
Loading...
Reply
You must log in to join this conversation.
Remember that posts are subject to Etsy's Community Policy.