Non-vegan items showing in vegan search results.

[#1]

I received a 1-star review due to a cake "advertised as vegan but contains eggs".

I do not advertise this cake as vegan. The word vegan is not mentioned anywhere in the listing -- not title, tags, description etc

But when I investigated and did a search on "vegan cakes", filtered to shop location UK, I was horrified to find this cake on page 1 of search results! This should not be possible.

So why did the algorithm think it is vegan? And how can I prevent this?

This could have dangerous effects on anyone who is allergic to eggs / dairy and thought it was safe to eat

(I do already have a full list of ingredients and an Allergen list in the description but it the buyer must have missed them. I am now planning to add the information into a photoslot too)

[digitaldoodlebug]

The system will not improve but will only get worse. I would hope that if someone was actually allergic then they would read the ingredients list before buying or consuming anything. I have dietary restrictions and read all ingredient lists (not even allergies). Sadly, we also have to countr the system to try and prevent this. Adding it as a photoslot is a good idea. Hopefully the shipped items have a physical label also. Guess that would make a crazy title to add it to that...

But you can only prevent so much. I was going over my amazon returns and it's wild... The PINK stickers were returned as defective because, wait for it, "needed red" (maybe they were hoping for a transformation during shipping?). The 1" stickers were returned as being too small because the photos make it look bigger (2nd photo is a visual aid that shows it being about the size of a quarter for those who don't use tape measures). The sad reality is many people don't pay attention, don't read, don't use a tape measure, and some don't even look beyond photo #1. While this is fare more likely on buyer centric easy return websites, etsy has long been catering to draw in that type of buyer. 

[Marmalady]

Yes, the item also has full ingredient list and allergens list on the label -- presumably that was when the buyer realised it was not a vegan cake

[mallowtreedays]

I have a yeast allergy and I check every thing I buy and I belive most people who don't want or cannot  eat a certain ingredient would do the same not just buy it without checking its strange they didn't.

[VogueVixens]

But what if the buyer themselves was not a vegan? If they were purchasing a vegan cake because a guest was vegan.

People SHOULD read ingredients lists and listing before purchase, but we know that lots do not. 

I've been a vegetarian for over 30 years and STILL some family and friends do not pay attention, I still have to ask questions. A vegetable soup that I am told is fine, was made with a meat broth...Dairy products containing gelatin served to me.

[OneEyeCatStudio]

I know it's not a matter of life and death, but I consider it close to bait and switch when Etsy shows me listings of base metal when I have put sterling silver in the search.

I don't know how Etsy can think this is going to improve sales. It should do just the opposite.

If the first page of a search is full of something that I, as potential buyer, did NOT ask to see it is not unreasonable to assume that the site does not HAVE what I asked to see. Otherwise why would they not show it to me?

No other site that I shop on is like this.

[MinnieMaudsAttic]

@OneEyeCatStudio    I think that some of the 'wrong' items found in search are down to mis-labelling by the seller.  Not in this case, of course.

I have seen jewellery described as 'sterling silver plated' picked up on searches for sterling silver.  Presumably for the same reason that searches for vegan cakes pick up things described as 'cake'

[OneEyeCatStudio]

Yes. We used to be able to -plated.

Now we can't.

[VogueVixens]

I use the sorting by highest or lowest price to slim down search results. It isn't perfect but it does provide more relevant results, except for ADS. 

Etsy will put advertised listings that are not related or barely related to the search terms.

[ArtDollsbyJD]

Vegan does not have a truly clear legal defination so there is no reason for search in any form not to include non-vegan items.  Yep it's wrong but that is the way it is.

The searcher has to be careful.  They have to read everything to make sure the item or topic is what they want.  Unfortunately many people today are far too trusting of what is given them without taking the time to read.

@Marmalady   Sorry you had this unfortunate incident.  You did fine in your reply to the buyer.  I don't know if this would help but maybe add non-vegan at the end of the title?   

[Natalya1905]

"And how can I prevent this?" 

Many shoppers don't read descriptions (been there). I would suggest to add "Non Vegan" to the title, description (right to the top), and tags. Also, add an info card as the 2nd photo. Still not a guarantee, but better than nothing. 

Same with gluten, nuts and so on. Make it obvious. 

[Marmalady]

I am reluctant to add "non-vegan" as that would make it even more likely for the algorithm to pick up the word vegan and add it to search results for vegan products

[Natalya1905]

@Marmalady  It is not about the search results. It is about a shopper who sees (or doesn't see) some extremely important information right away. 

We can't control how the search algo works (and it's obviously broken), but at least we can tell shoppers what the product is.  

[bradgoodell]

I just looked at the listing in question.  Without even clicking I can see the ingredients include eggs.  Eggs are listed under "materials" and listed again as "ingredients", along with milk.  This is a no-brainer, your buyer is an ------.  

Geezus.  

[OneEyeCatStudio]

This whole discussion makes me wonder what the Etsybots would do in the case of someone opening an NAD case.

[bradgoodell]

NAD cases are usually weighed.  Since the listing clearly shows eggs and milk in 2 places, I'm pretty sure she would win.  Even if they chose to refund the buyer, she wouldn't be dinged.  Her listing is quite clear.  

After looking at the listing, I can't even type what I think of the buyer in question.  

[CanningCrafts]

If someone has food intolerances or preferences, they really need to read all item details. Etsy doesn't always make that easy, but it's still on the customer to do their part.

The last time I bought cookies on Etsy, they showed me chocolate scented soap in search results...fancy soap that LOOKED like real desserts. That could've ended poorly if I didn't have common sense & READ. Luckily the majority of search results were for actual food. But I was annoyed that I had to see stuff that wasn't.

You cannot get every single customer to read, no matter how hard you try. If you go adding details about what a product isn't, where would that end? I had a customer put my PAPER labels in WATER & was shocked at how that ended. I do not say they are waterproof, because I say they are PAPER. One customer thought that in 15 years, so I won't be adding "not waterproof" to any listings.

[digitaldoodlebug]

Yep, we've all been there. People upset that the item was this or wasn't that. So the description becomes very long and detailed and then is read even less. 

If it's waterproof, we'll say it. If it's glossy, we'll say it. If it's dishwasher safe, we'll say it. But no, you have to say everything it isn't, or people think all random things apply. Or if it's waterproof it's harder to write on (you can't have both). No, this drill can not be used as a hammer. Although the worst is selling waterproof polyester stickers and people leaving reviews "these don't look very waterproof"... or once someone said it wasn't polyester (possibly thinking of clothing, not realizing that means made of plastic, not some soft material)

[CanningCrafts]

And on the flip side, my customer who bought paper labels thought they should've had a film on them & been laminated. LOL. 

Although the worst is selling waterproof polyester stickers and people leaving reviews "these don't look very waterproof"

[MyOrganisedHome]

I’ve just done a search for vegan cakes.

Most of the results had the word vegan at the start of their titles. I’m guessing those that didn’t probably aren’t vegan. One had the words ‘gluten free’, which isn’t the same as vegan at all, but at least it’s a type of alert to food catering for dietary restrictions.

But this being Etsy, the word CAKE overrules all, so prominently positioned in my results was this: Not a vegan strawberry cake - not even edible! 

It’s such a bad idea to enable buyers to add to basket without showing them the descriptions.

[DeuxMeus]

This is a serious issue! It's terrible that non-vegan products are appearing in vegan searches. The algorithm should not allow this at all! The problem with that the ingredients are listed in the description should be visible by all users.I'm so sorry to hear about this, I experienced a similar issue. It's a crucial reminder to ensure that your listings clearly state whether a product is vegan to prevent misinterpretation and ensure customer safety. It could be dangerous to advertise something as vegan when its is not.Have you tried contacting Etsy support about this? They might be able to help to prevent such issues.

[timelapse]

@DeuxMeus - Totally agree that this is a dangerous move on Etsy's part, and could even leave them open to legal issues if someone with egg allergy is involved.

Vegan is often a lifestyle choice, but there are also many times it is a medical choice. Many people/platforms may forget that fact!

[Marmalady]

I haven't contacted Etsy as such -- but I did appeal the review saying that it was because of confusion caused  by their search algorithm. They refused to remove it.

[timelapse]

@Marmalady - It might be tedious to do, but maybe add the words "Non-Vegan" right on the thumbnail pic of each such cake? Sort of like a vivid but tasteful (pardon the pun) watermark on the photo! A lot of people just look at pictures, and don't read. So it would be right there in their face on the first photo!

[Marmalady]

Trouble with adding "non-vegan" anywhere is that the search bot will pick up on "vegan" (ignoring the non- part) and think it is correct in showing the cake in a vegan search.
And apparently it can read text on photos.

For that listing I have now added a photo with a picture of the ingredients plus text list of ingredients & allergens

As I make items in future I will do the same for all my bakes