Etsy delisting my items despite proof. Getting Final Warning weeks after their last take down.

[InTheMarginsStudio]

Last fall I had Etsy deactivating some of my listings. I do some consignments and wholesale so some items may appear elsewhere. So to demonstrate that I made my own items I sent photos of my design files, the process of printing my designs on items such as phone cases or coasters, and the programs and machinery I use. Etsy recognized the proof and reinstated my listings. Recently they are delisting my items again. So after the canned response of "your items don't comply read the handbook" I reactivated the previous email thread that reached an actual person who reinstated my listings. However Etsy stuck with their decision this time? And then nearly two weeks later I get a final warning that just made my stomach plummet. They also removed my star seller badge as an extra kick to the gut.

Can a Mod help me out here? I don't know how else to prove to etsy that my items are made by me.  Want me to send you a custom made item? I'd be happy to take step by step photos and send an item as proof!

It is so frustrating that Etsy is advertising the "human side" when sellers do not get humans to help us. This is a main source of income for many of us. Being self employed, I don't get benefits like severance checks or unemployment. We invest SO MUCH TIME getting our shops up only for them to permaban our stores on what feels like a whim and a misunderstanding. I am juggling maintaining my sales, preparing for art shows, learning new crafts; I cannot keep fighting this all the time.

[AnnaleasFinest]

Similar here!

I had one listing taken down that I designed and handmade,  so I immediately sent proof and took photos of my tools, my supplies, even where I purchased them, but 3 weeks later, all I learned was, that it has been seen on a major selling platform.

Where?  Please show me the evidence if I get accused! Nobody ever looked at my photos! WHY NOT?

If my photos, with my unique backdrops, (my garden, my plants, my lace fabrics, my illumination)  are appearing elsewhere, then this seller stole them!

On other platforms, like IG, you can't download photos.

I heartily request Etsy to likewise protect their sellers from photo theft, by installing some sort of effective protection, or OTHERWISE, with Bots searching images, Etsy will cull exactly those listings, which are the most alluring to thieves,  because they are SO GOOD, that the thieves can't produce anything even close to it!

So it's like someone first gets robbed in his wonderful home and then goes to jail, instead if the thief, because the Sheriff doesn't understand what's going on!

Now, I do understand that Artificial "intelligence" should sometimes be called "artificial stupidity", but then AT LEAST, dear Etsy, set up a quick-working effective human staff, that replies in a timely fashion and resolves issues without jumping to the conclusion, that their seasoned senior sellers would do something as stupid as risking their shops, by reselling!

Why should we, when we are so much better than that??

Why shpould we run stupid risks, if we got much more under our belts than the thieves? - That's why they steal from us, and not we from them!

Why should we risk our shops that we build up over 10 years? Having internalized the rules, have taught them to others and contunue to do so?

We are the ones that can easily outperform our thieves, any time!

I hope a moderator can help me and all, who suffer the same unfair bot activities!  We are getting treated like criminals!

So many more are affected, - please help those of us who get stolen from and then get falsely accused of the "crime"!

It MUST be possible to get human support, who effectively looks into the evidence, and most of all,

WE NEED PHOTO PROTECTION here!

Other platforms mark the photos a seller or host uploads with their own platform logo, others disable the download.

This would be a step in the right direction.

PLEASE ! We deserve this!  Or don't we?

PS: Because anybody can steal my photos here, I spent HOURS yesterday watermarking all of the photos of a new listing, but THINK about what a loss of time this is...!

I could have added 3 new listings in the same time!   Etsy would have made money....

[FancyTogs]

It is not an error, it is being done as the specific instructions of the Etsy CEO.

Josh Silverman has set the requirement that listings on Etsy are to be removed if the photo is found on certain marketplace websites.

It is not possible to prevent stealing of photos on the internet. The image file has to be delivered to the user device for display. I can download full size images from Instagram, as well as do basic screen grabs.

Lawrence (Clare's other half)

[AnnaleasFinest]

@FancyTogs 

I am talking about

Image theft and re-selling. 2 very different things.

If Etsy deactivates the creator's original, erroneously ASSUMING, that the Etsy seller is the reseller, whilst it's the thief who stole on Etsy, images and designs, then this needs to be worked upon.

This problem is not unknown to you, you read and reply here a lot.

Etsy will cull their best photographers, with items in high demand.

"The image file has to be delivered to the user device for display. "

I don't understand, please reword it.

"I can download full size images from Instagram, as well as do basic screen grabs."

I can't, how do you do that? I'm on a laptop.

But that was not my point, - I know platforms which protect their owner's photos, eg, with

I'm sure so do you.

What would you recommend as a photo protection?

On a platform that is regularly searched by certain individuals to steal from here, I have to do something!

[FancyTogs]

I am adding to your excellent post, not disagreeing.

It is an Etsy management decision, not an AI bot software error, to remove listings that have the same photos on Temu, Shein, etc.

I don't think it is reasonable or sensible.

Blaming it on software errors obscures the real cause which is a flawed Etsy management strategy.

"The image file has to be delivered to the user device for display."

In order for an image to be displayed on the user's browser the image file has to be sent to the user's device.

This means that it is impossible to prevent people from being able to steal the image file.

"how do you do that?"

I have opened your Instagram page on my laptop. I'm using Firefox.

I click your owl pendant and it overlays the big image and comments onto the page.

I right click on the image and select inspect.

The code window opens with the code line highlighted. That is an overlay element to prevent right click on the actual image, . . .

so I go to the Div line above, and click the down arrow to expand that and it now displays the image code with the image url.

Click on the image code line, right click, select  copy >Image Data-URL.

Open a new browser tab, paste the image url into the address bar . . . I have the image displayed totally unprotected.

That was an easy one. It was  in the HTML. The code line is modified by a javascript event to display next image if it was a multi-image post, but the image url would still be visible in the HTML.

Some websites will bury the image file url in javascript code which is beyond my minimal skills, but it will still be easy picking for somebody who knows what they are doing.

The problem with image protection is always that the display device needs to be sent the image file in order to display it.

Alternative screen grab method:

On the instagram page again, looking at the owl pendant post with comments.

I make the browser window full screen to increase teh image size.

I press Alt PrtSC

I open Gimp

I press ctrl V

Done

Images are never fully protected on the internet.

Lawrence

[AnnaleasFinest]

@FancyTogs 

I'm relieved you are not disagreeing and are also critical of the new directive!

I'm totally lost when I click: "Inspect".

I will have to take some time to comprehend it...

Thank you for explaining it!

Do you know if promoting my photos on social media is interpreted as "seen on other major selling platforms", so that my own photos on IG and FB, are causing the problem?

I haven't looked on Shein, Ali or Temu yet.

I'm honestly scared to look.

[FancyTogs]

@AnnaleasFinest 

IG and FB should not be a problem.

Etsy are doing it to catch the resellers and drops shippers, so they are looking at the low priced marketplaces.

You don't need to go searching on the platforms yourself. Use "reverse image search" websites, such as Google or TinEye. You can get add-ons for the firefox browser that add reverse image search to your right click menu.

Lawrence

[AnnaleasFinest]

@FancyTogs 

thank you. My internet skills are really poor, I don't know how to do a reverse search. Edit: I DID IT!!!!

Thank you so much!

I searched for my image AND IT IS NOWHERE TO BE SEEN.

I saw several items that were similar, but not modified, embellished and altered like mine.

So it's clearly an error, and last time it happened, my item was reinstated within 24 hours and Etsy apologized to me.

This time, nobody seems to have taken a look at my photo evidence of my work and tools.

I can easily knock out something better any time, but I'm worried about the threats for a mistake that not I made.

Do you know if 3 watermarks can make my photos safer?

[FancyTogs]

Watermarks help, but cannot prevent image theft.

I can think of 3 ways to use watermarks:

• branding: to clearly inform viewers that it is your product. You want your images to be shared on social media, this watermark is to lead buyers back to you. This is often best done as a natural visual component of the scene, such as a card with your logo in the background of the shot, but is often easier to add as a visible watermark during editing.
• deterrence, to discourage image theft: Add a visible watermark so they won't steal your image because it is extra work for them. Sometimes this can be performed with a branding watermark.
• proof: something not obvious, to make it easier to prove your copyright.

If they ignore the watermark and use the image with the watermark, it makes it easier to prove that it is your image.

It can be very easy to remove some watermarks.

Watermarks on the edge of a photo are easy to crop off.

Watermarks on plain backgrounds are easy to clone out.

There is also software and website services for removing most watermarks.

It is impossible to totally prevent removal of watermarks.

Using a transparent watermark, or an embossing effect, on a busy part of the image will make the watermark harder to remove. The fainter it is the less likely they are to notice it, so better for proof, but worse for branding and worse for deterrence.

The best place to position watermarks is in the middle of the photo, within the vertical and horizontal boundary of the product area (to prevent cropping), and on an area with a busy background (to make cloning more difficult).

Lawrence

[BagmakerSupply]

"Please show me the evidence if I get accused! Nobody ever looked at my photos! WHY NOT?" If one listens to the public comments made by Etsy (through their CEO) it appears that they are checking (only?) the wholesale type sites (such as AliExpress) not if the picture is on any other site. But he also implied that if the picture is found on one of those sites the shop is considered guilty until proven otherwise.

"... others disable the download" Unfortunately the nature of the web is that this is not true. For some sites you merely need to disable Javascript, for some you do need to read the page source to get the image URL, for others like Instagram you merely need to use the developer tools built into the browser to download the image. The most any site can do is make image theft a little more inconvenient for the casual thief.

[AnnaleasFinest]

@FancyTogs 

excellent advice! Thank you SO much for all the help you are providing!

I will apply the watermarks as you suggested.

[MillionYearsCrystal]

same happened to us, and I really don't understand why Etsy will remove our listing if someone else stole our photo...

they never replied me, despite all the emails and message I sent they said a team member will work on that and email me. I only got a standard reply closedd the case.

[mymolliesunshine]

I have even seen photos used on other selling sites with watermarks on them, so even that may not help.  Several years ago I found some of my items on another major selling site and I saw others that I would guess came from etsy.  Some had water marks with the person's actual name on the photos and they were still using them.  I understand how you feel.  My photos that were being used were taken in my living room on my mantle.  It felt like a personal violation to see my photos in my living room being used by some other person.  I don't know how any of us can stop this after reading what he said about taking down any that are seen on certain marketplace websites, because we know these greedy people are not going to stop stealing photos.  This is going to destroy a lot of small shops on here.  There is also someone on ebay that has taken only the backgrounds from other shops on etsy and are placing their products on that background.  One of my backgrounds is being used there and has been for several years.

[AnnaleasFinest]

@mymolliesunshine 

this is awful. I hear you. My photos were also taken on an embroidered tulle dress of mine that I wore on a very special event.

It makes me feel helpless. Worthless!

Not like an appreciated customer.

When you follow all the rules and they still gut you... that feels awful.

I'm losing trust! Has Etsy become too large to care about the individual?

[FallenAngelBrass]

@AnnaleasFinest 

Yes.  Long Ago. 

[AnnaleasFinest]

@FallenAngelBrass 

: - (

[MetalRocks]

I took down 2 listings that were giving me trouble as they’d been stolen elsewhere. I got reinstated once.  The second time I retired the items. It is a never ending issue with stolen pictures & designs, now produced overseas and available for wholesale, USING MY DESIGN AND PICTURES TAKEN IN MY LIVING ROOM. There is no work around. When the rubber met the road, I chose my battle.  There are other places to sell those designs.  I don’t need to keep pushing the envelope here.

[JBPacrat]

@InTheMarginsStudio " I do some consignments and wholesale". Just wondering if this could be an issue for you.

[InTheMarginsStudio]

I do think this is a possible reason. But I did clarify this with Etsy. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out a solution that doesn't involve cutting other revenue streams.

[WPshoppe]

Every single photo uploaded holds specific data, information that can and should be used to identify the original owner. Why, OH why hasn't Etsy employed some genius tech software to weed out the photos that follow the originals? This whole thing makes no sense to me.

[FancyTogs]

The EXIF data in the image file can be stripped out very easily, most editors can do it. Etsy strip it when you upload listing images.

There are methods for tracing the history of internet photos, even with changes to them. However the services for that will cost money as there is a lot of processing, and would only be needed if you care about false positives. It is easier and cheaper to jump to an unsound conclusion, declare the innocent guilty, and make it their problem.

This is Etsy, not justice.

It only matters if it affects share prices and dividends.

Lawrence

[AnnaleasFinest]

This. Can and should be used. I will have to start putting my shopname into photo titles.

@WPshoppe 

[FancyTogs]

@AnnaleasFinest 

"I will have to start putting my shopname into photo titles."

If you mean the Alt text for the image then you need to be aware that Alt text is not part of the image file. It is part of the HTML code on the web page where the image is displayed. It won't stop any image theft and won't be saved with the image when stolen.

Lawrence

[PoochandTabby]

@AnnaleasFinest

I did a reverse search on your listing: Pendant watch necklace sun moon and stars silver cosmos celestial pocket watch retro Vintage Victorian gift for women

It is on Aliexpress, Temu, EBay, Caousell, Amazon and other Etsy sellers are selling it to. So if it is yours, you need to go through to find them and do the necessary paperwork to get these sellers to take them down, as these are the types of things that get flagged for being on all these sites. Reverse search is a Godsent for these types of situations. It sucks you have to do it in the first place, but it's a very helpful tool to figuring these things out. 

@InTheMarginsStudio

I looked up a cached version of your shop and it gave me a version from December 2023 and you were selling Lord of the Rings, Dr. Who, Coraline, Peter Pan and Avengers themed coasters, among others. If you were still selling them when all this started happening and don't have the licensing in place to legally sell these items, that may be your problem. 

[FancyTogs]

Which reverse image search are you using?

I tried TinEye for that listing's 1st image and I got zero results.

Google image search (Google Lens) shows lots of different images of the watch element from multiple marketplaces, but they are results for similar images, and not the same image, nor for the same product as being sold by AnnaleasFinest.

Using "Find image source" on Google gives mostly exact matches, all leading back to AnnaleasFinest's listing on Etsy, for multiple country versions, and market pages that included it when crawled.

Lawrence