Customer "Message Response Rate" incorrect

[#1]

Hello, I noticed that I have been incorrectly flagged as taking over 48 hours to respond to a customer's first message, even though that is not the case. I downloaded the .CSV and did confirm that it was a specific message/customer that it was an issue for.

They sent me a message for a custom order, within 24 hours of the first message I sent them back a custom order, yet because I didn't send them a text message along with the custom order I was flagged for not responding, even though I clearly responded with a custom order!

I've otherwise had a 100% rate at responding under 24 hours, this is a pretty upsetting blemish on what would otherwise be a perfect record, and would have granted me the third badge for fast responses which I'm now unfortunately missing. Any help with this would be appreciated.

[CraftyCornishMaids]

@Crowsnest3DPrinting 

I don't think anyone is complacent

I am certainly not

Etsy's statement on what we have to do is clear - REPLY

You didn't do it, you were dinged.

@AradiaDesigns 

If you reply within 7 hours, it will not show on your stats straight away

they give you the full 48 hours to reply, before they count it.

If it goes over a month end, then it will be in the next months stats

If it is not on your stats after that, raise a call log with etsy

[BootifulLabels]

Sending the order is not the same as responding to the email.  Even if the email gave you all the info you need to create the order, you also need to respond to the message to satisfy SS requirements.  The system is fully automated and simply compares receipt and response times to determine if you answered within the 24hr requirement.   If you send a separate message with the order link the original message remains unanswered.  A quick "thank you, I will send the custom order right away" will do.  If this sort of thing happens often, you can create a quick reply on the message page that can be used each time it is needed and then it is only a couple of clicks to satisfy SS.  

[Crowsnest3DPrinting]

They are both done from the same interface, and even shows up as a message IN the chat thread. I totally understand what is intended, and definitely will be sending messages going forward, however the point still stands that it needs to be written in an article or expressed to the seller that a custom order (which shows up in the chat thread/message interface) does not count as a reply.

[BootifulLabels]

Star Seller was introduced before the Customer Service Standards and has its own rules, despite it being a "Customer Service Standard" in its own right.  Do not confuse the requirements of the two programs.  

SS requires that you respond to 95% of new messages within 24 hrs, CSS only requires 80%.

If you are concerned about losing your Star Seller status, check  the Star Seller Standards, they are more stringent and there are no do-overs.  The system is automated and simply looks at the time stamps for receipt and response to determine compliance.   

Star Seller is aspirational, you don't get penalised for not having the badge and as someone who has only managed it a handful of times in the 4 years or so it has been in place, I cab tell you, it makes zero difference to have the badge.  

Customer Service Standards are the ones you absolutely must meet or risk punitive action if you fall short.  It is actually easier to get because the requirements are more lenient, but it is by far the more important of the two.

[Crowsnest3DPrinting]

@BootifulLabelsThis little hiccup which is not my fault has dropped my message response rate (both CSS/SS) from 100% to 86%, which is just barely scraping by above the service standard.

Most of my orders don't require messages so my overall message volume is low.

I'm sorry but why should I get a huge blemish on my account for absolutely no reason when I actually fulfilled my requirements based on current documentation. Requirements are I reply, I replied, and got penalized. I can't put it simply any other way.

[luxcrafter]

If we all send you a message you respond to pronto, that could help.  Although it would take around 20 to get it back to 95%.

Or is that 'gaming' the system?

[Crowsnest3DPrinting]

@luxcrafter  I'm sure that is against the terms of service, nor would I honestly ever like to artificially boost my stats up. I work hard for my customers!

Of course if anyone has any interest/questions for my products or genuinely wants to place a custom order they are more than welcome to do so

[NanaLetha]

It is written https://help.etsy.com/hc/en-us/articles/360036207794-What-are-Etsy-s-Customer-Service-Standards?segm...

[Crowsnest3DPrinting]

Actually read that article, it has absolutely no mention what so ever that sending a custom order does not count as a reply.

I'm genuinely curious if I missed it, as I've read it over multiple times now yet I can not find any mention of this.

[Crowsnest3DPrinting]

Replying here as there seems to be some confusion.

I did send the custom offer IN the chat thread. You can not argue that this is not a reply to the customer, they sent something, I sent something back, which shows up in the chat thread.

I understand that it is intended that you need to send a message, however there is absolutely nothing indicating that replying with a custom order does not count as sending a message.

I've redacted most of this for obvious reasons, but you can see that this most certainly looks to me like I replied to the customer: https://imgur.com/8C6Kvtm

[BootifulLabels]

When you create a custom order, the link is sent to the buyer  's email, and a copy of the response is added to the original request thread so that you can find it easily if needed.  However that is done in the background by Etsy and the original message still shows as unanswered in the messages section.  You still need to answer that original message.  The system will register it as unanswered if you don't actually reply to it in the messages section.  A simple " check your email for the order link" will do, and you can save it on the message pagein the quick response drop down under the message window.

[Crowsnest3DPrinting]

There is no "Unanswered Messages" section, just an inbox. Nowhere did it say it was unanswered, nor did I get an email/notification saying it was unanswered.

Also, as I've shown in one of my previous messages it shows up in the chat thread, implying that it was replied to regarding the message that was sent.

Again, I will restate, I understand that the intention is to send a message, and obviously will be going forward to avoid this issue. However this idea that performing an action within a chat thread, which adds a new message to the chat thread, which is sent to both myself and the customer, does not count as a reply, is preposterous. Doubly so when the documentation does not mention anything about this technicality AND I am negatively impacted as a result of this technicality.

[luxcrafter]

More accurately, when you create a custom order you are in fact creating a new listing only.  It appears in your shop, and Etsy then sends a link to that item to the customer.  All outside the message system.

Now, there is no reason whatsoever that Etsy could or would not automatically reply/send on your behalf a response to someone asking for custom, along the lines of "A custom order for you has been created and the link will be provided in another email". 

But then, Etsy tends not to take the sensible or helpful route to any destination. 

[Crowsnest3DPrinting]

@luxcrafter  That's just not true, it's all done within the messaging interface and even shows up as a message/reply to the thread. See image here: https://imgur.com/8C6Kvtm

[luxcrafter]

Yes I know where it's done.  It's just that it is not a message as Etsy sees it.  Myopia, astigmatisms and macular degeneration notwithstanding. Etsy sort of tossed that custom order bit onto the messages page because that's where you usually get asked about 'em.  A more logical place would have been the listing area, if it was in the end never going to have anything really to do with messages.

[Crowsnest3DPrinting]

@luxcrafter  Ah gotcha, being new to the platform there is no way I could have known this. Still, they made the decision to merge the function with the messages interface, therefor I think they should absolutely count as a message/reply.

If they were separate I would have had absolutely no issues with this not counting, would have just brushed it off and known for next time.

[luxcrafter]

Then picture the gruff excessive-drinking stepfather standing over the cowering youngster as the man begins to pull out his belt (again) while proclaiming, "[structure ....] you boy, you'll learn to do what I say!"

[What the drunk never realizes is that the child grows up and moves out as soon as he can.  Ahem ....]

[bradgoodell]

This happens too when someone says "Can you cancel a sale?" and the seller cancels and doesn't send a separate reply, thinking the cancellation reply is enough.  Fair or unfair, Etsy isn't going to make an exception.  It's not even worth trying to talk to Chat, they cannot change it for you.  

Star Seller has a tough learning curve.  Sorry.

[Crowsnest3DPrinting]

Then there is a fundamental issue with Etsy that needs to be resolved, especially if this is such a common issue.

I'm sorry but this is completely unacceptable behaviour of the platform, there is absolutely no documentation or written policy on this for such a critical part of the platform and it needs to be changed.

They CAN change it - it is their platform, perhaps the first layer support doesn't have the tools to resolve, but that does not mean they can not resolve the issue.

[bradgoodell]

@Crowsnest3DPrinting Star Seller has been in place since 2021, it has been 4 years now.  If Etsy saw it as a fundamental issue they needed to resolve, they would have done so.  Instead, they've doubled-down on Star Seller adding more restrictions.  They've increased both the carrot and the stick.  

Etsy CAN change it, but what benefit is it for them to do so?  Star Seller and all of the hoops works for Etsy.   You won't ever make that mistake again, so Etsy gets exactly what they want.  Compliance.  

Frankly, if you actually found it to be completely unacceptable behavior, you would leave Etsy.  And Etsy wouldn't even notice.  Etsy has become big enough that sellers leaving are not a concern to them.  Etsy is actually removing sellers by the droves right now.

Sorry to be so blunt.  Best of luck.

[Crowsnest3DPrinting]

@bradgoodell   So me, as a newish seller on Etsy spots a blatant issue and voices that there is a serious flaw (that affects multiple people clearly) that could be so easily remedied - a simple written entry in the documentation even if the issue is so impossible to fix, yet you back up the big company?

Perhaps if people actually made some noise about the issue instead of trying to silence those who bring them up, Etsy MIGHT actually change for the better?

Anywho I'm not here to convince you nor rile you up, best of luck on your endeavours and have a wonderful day

[bradgoodell]

@Crowsnest3DPrinting 

Where did I say I agreed with Etsy?   

You think you are the only person who has ever complained?  NOPE.  I complained quite vociferously when it was introduced.  So have many, many others sellers.

Etsy has stated repeatedly Star Seller is working.  Etsy is happy with its results.  Why would Etsy bother to change it?  

Railing about it gets you nowhere.  I'm trying to save you the time and mental anguish, you are shouting into the wind.  

You do you.

[Crowsnest3DPrinting]

@bradgoodell  Yeah misread your last message sorry about that! Was pretty tired and frustrated last night.

This may end up just being an echo chamber that results in nothing, but I'm going to try my hardest as I always give 110% for my shop and my customers.

For being a shop that will respond within 5-10 minutes for most messages I've received unless it was while I was sleeping, and working so hard in general for customer satisfaction, this is pretty upsetting.

[CraftyCornishMaids]

Etsy says you have to reply to each new message thread, or mark as spam

They do not say you have to create a custom order and send it to them.

they say you have to reply to each new message thread - you didn't, so you were dinged

[Crowsnest3DPrinting]

There is literally a button right in the messaging window to make a custom order, which shows up as a reply in the messaging interface as a reply. A customer sent something, I sent something back, which by definition is a reply. Again this is a platform-specific technicality that should not exist that only harms new sellers.

As I've mentioned before, even if they wrote a single line in the help documentation to make this clear, it would at least be documented.