Canceling order is made compleatly wrong

[AgitShop]

Hello

quick update what i had right now- buyer purchased item from me, and then couple hours later he changed mind, that way he asked for cancelation. Problem began for me as seller, that i didnt have enough money on my bank account, and i couldnt ask anyone to help me get money. and by contacting etsy support, i didnt get any solution for my case. Now the problem i solved by taking extra loan from bank with interest rate 10% , but again error from etsy side nowhere was written that etsy will take from my bank account complete amount from order or only fees that we are paying etsy.

So my suggestion to etsy technical team what to do to simplify cancelation process:

1)If buyer orders, then you should give buyer option to cancel the order if the seller havent shipped the item out and buyer have contacted seller and both agreed to cancel the order. in that way buyer opens cancelation and in same time seller gets message from etsy to agree for cancelation or not

2) By canceling an order, etsy should take only that money what we are recieving from etsy for this order and thats it, and not like its now that we need to also pay for etsy fees, and when we do, then etsy automatically send that money back to our account. I dont know which smart head made this but this is compleatly stupid. There are 2 transactions (we pay etsy fees and then you refund it) that need to be made, without any use case.

[UniqueGiftOrnaments]

When going into business, one should always have backup funds. And Etsy does not keep the fees when an order is canceled.

[AgitShop]

then why should we need to pay at the begining for etsy fees?it's not making any sense by cancelation to pay the fees then to recieve them back

[JHFWBeadsAndFindings]

I find this comment not very kind. Also, this wasn't the question.

[MadewithlovebyNtouka]

@AgitShop 
You say that you don't want to pay Etsy fees at the "beginning". What is the "beginning"? 
When a customer is purchasing an item, then this is the moment when the fees will be charged. 
Etsy can't foresee if a purchase will be cancelled, in most cases customers will keep the item and not cancel the transaction.
You also pay immediately for what you are purchasing elsewhere and not after three weeks when you are sure you will keep it.

[AgitShop]

Forgot to write 1 more thing- by cancelation, etsy need to show how much we the sellers need to pay extra, in my case etsy showed that i need to pay 113 euro, what i got from this order was 71 euro, and etsy  took form my bank account 28 euro. my suggestion is that when etsy is showing those nr, then they need to show that from my bank account they will take only 28 euro and not like it was in my case "the rest of amount"

[MadewithlovebyNtouka]

I don't understand your problems. You said the customer cancelled his order just a few hours after he purchased the item. 
The money for that transaction should still be on your etsy finance account and not already be transferred to your private bank account. 
Refunds will be taken from your etsy finance account, and Etsy will also refund the fees to your payment account.

[AAANativeArts]

You should always keep some funds in reserve for just such occasions.

When you sell something, that money is not available to your account for 24 hours. So, if there isn't enough in your Etsy account to cover the refund, they will take it from your bank, or a credit card you have on file with Etsy. They tell you that in the Terms of Service documents.

Since the payment hadn't been credited to your account yet when you cancelled the order, the funds were't there yet, so they took the whole amount from your bank.

When you cancel an order, they should return your selling and listing fees to you, but it can take a few days for that to register in your account.

Etsy should return the VAT and tax fees they collected on this order directly to the seller, since you never handle them, so you don't include those charges in your refund. That was probably the difference betweenn the 131 euros collected and the 71 Euros you received for the sale.

Only Etsy can straighten this out for you now.

In the future, when a customer requests a cancellation, let him know you will be canceling the order but it can take up to 5 days to get credited to his account. Then wait until the funds are actually in your Etsy account before you issue the cancellation. That will avoid it being taken from  your bank when you have no money in your account.

[BootifulLabels]

You get your fees back when you cancel an order on Etsy.

However, your funds from the sale are not actually available to withdraw ( or use for refunds) until 3 days after the sale for the first 90 days since your first sale, and the day after the sale once you pass the 90 days.  Because of this, you may not have enough cleared funds to cover the refund so Etsy charges any shortfall to your credit card online.  Once the funds in the account become available to withdraw, you get the money back.

It is always a good idea before starting a new venture to ensure you have funds set aside to cover expenses until your sales begin to flow.

[AgitShop]

Thanks for your all replay, all that you wrote unfortunally i know, but what i ment is why we need to pay for etsy fees by canceling order from our bank account extra  and then to recieve them back. Those two steps are unnecessary. Why  for example when im canceling an order in ebay, then ebay takes only that amount of money what im recieving from then. And i dont need to pay extra for fees so later i can get them back. About funds that we need to keep for such situation i aslo understand , but life is life 

[audreytherese]

Sounds like you just need to wait for the funds to get moved into your available balance before refunding. My funds always move over at midnight, so I have waited a few hours to issue a refund after it has moved into the available funds in order to avoid the in-and-out of the money in the bank account. 

[BagmakerSupply]

@AgitShop: The system that Etsy set up is just proper accounting. I am not sure what you think happened, but the fees were charged at the time of the sale, then refunded at the time of the cancellation. Some amount of time passed between those events and how would Etsy know at the time of the sale that the order would be subsequently cancelled?

[BootifulLabels]

Etsy doesn't receive the funds in their accounts immediately, the payment processor arranges the collection and transfer of the funds and once they know the transfer is underway they notify Etsy that the payment is on the way.  Etsy notifies the seller likewise, but it is normal practice that the actual transfer of the funds takes place overnight so the funds have not reached Etsy as yet, and while Etsy shows you the details of the payment dissection, the funds are not available for you to transfer until the next day, when the actual funds arrive.  If you refund the same day as the sale, Etsy cannot take the funds from your account as they are not yet there.  If you had other funds from pervious sales, they would use them, knowing that the new funds will become available the next day and will replace the funds they used.  However if your account was empty before the sale, there are no actual funds in your account form that sale until the day after.

It is no different to what would happen if you had a bricks and mortar store and used an EFTPOS machine.  When a buyer pays with a card, the funds from the sale are yours on paper, but they won't actually reach your bank account until at least the next day.  If the buyer comes back to return the item that same afternoon, you have to process the refund and those funds will be drawn back from the same account your EFTPOS payments go to.

[ArtDollsbyJD]

@AgitShop   You had to have a credit card available in your shop.  That is what Etsy charges when there is not enough funds in the payment account.

You could have waited the 12 hours to find the funds deposited in the shop payment account for you to return to the buyer.

Part of doing business is to have funds available to be used when things like this happen.

You are not paying fees for canceling.  Etsy returns fees once the order is refunded and canceled. 

[Vintorious]

The problem is not clear to me. Are you saying that Etsy took more from you to make the refund than you received from the sale? That would be odd, unless you had unpaid listing fees (that would be a LOT of listings, though). 

[hopeandjoystudios]

Any refunds that you can't cover from your payment account go o your card on file. You are supposed to have a unexpired card on file to open and run an Etsy account? Not sure how anyone end runs that? Yes it is a bit irritating that it will put it on your card when your available funds are not enough to cover and the original sale is there but just not available yet.

[CraftyCornishMaids]

but again error from etsy side nowhere was written that etsy will take from my bank account complete amount from order or only fees that we are paying etsy.

Etsy takes from the card on file, that's what they say they do, and that's what they do
- If you have a debit card there, linked to your bank, that's down to you, you could have a credit card, or reloadable prepaid card, they are all YOUR choices.

Etsy refunds from "available to deposit", and if there is not enough in "available to deposit" it comes from the card you enter, in the billing section.

from etsy.......

E. Refunds. Refunds or adjustments paid by Etsy to buyers for payments made through Etsy Payments may be initiated using the refund functionality in the seller's payment account for a period of 180 days after the purchase was made. The Etsy Payments Platform does not have refund functionality after 180 days from the original purchase date. Any such funds paid by Etsy to cover refunds will be deducted from the seller’s payment account balance. If there are insufficient funds to cover the amount of the refund, the balance will be charged to the seller’s card on file or added to the seller’s payment account.

[heavyistheheart]

I notice most replies here saying you should always have money put aside when starting a new business. Ten years ago when I sat down and started listing things I had made on etsy I had no huge business plan...I just wanted to see if people might like what I loved to make. I doubt most artists sit down and make a business plan off the bat. Congrats if you did but I would not think this is a majority.

[CraftyCornishMaids]

they have 44 sales and have been selling since at least February

They should have built up a reserve to do 1 refund by now

[OmasFabricStash · Accepted solution]

Technically Etsy didn’t take the money from your bank account, they took it from the card you had on file. A credit card you can pay a few weeks later when it is due, debit cards don’t work that way, you need to have the money to cover it. 
I would have waited until the next day if possible. Then you would have had the money you made available to cover almost all the refund costs. When you refund you get all your fees back and you get your listing cost back when you cancel the sale. 

[NoFrogsAllowed]

Etsy is all about the money and the buyer.  The seller is inconsequential.  When you refund, the buyer gets their money immediately.  Unfortunately when you refund on the same day as the sale, you do not have the sale money yet and Etsy doesn't have the sale money yet.  These funds are not available until the next day after the payment processor has done their thing.  Etsy is not going to refund from their money or from someone else's money, so they take it from your credit card.  When the payment processor releases the funds, then Etsy returns the money they took from your credit card back to you.  It's a 2 step process, because Etsy won't front the money.

[WitticismsRus]

https://help.etsy.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002089188-How-to-Issue-a-Full-or-Partial-Refund-For-an-Or...

"How do I pay for a refund?

If you use Etsy Payments, the funds for the refund are deducted from your Payment account. If your Payment account doesn’t have enough funds to cover the refund, your credit card on file will be charged for the remaining amount. "

[MarjorysMiniatures]

Maybe the buyer find the same item for less, it is a lot of these bands all over Etsy, with different and competitive prices.