Account Suspended Due to Etsy's Creativity Standard Violation - Unjust!

[#1]

I’ve been selling wedding dresses on Etsy for years, with all designs created from scratch by myself and my team. Every photo is taken by us or professionally paid for, and I have all the camera data and original files to prove they belong to us - including behind-the-scenes shots. In 2018, one of our designs went viral (Brittany Snow wore it for her wedding), and since then, we’ve had copycats flooding the internet.

Despite this, I’ve repeatedly had my own listings removed, and Etsy support has been nothing but frustrating. The responses are vague, often citing that our photos are being used on platforms like Aliexpress. While it's true that they steal our content because our photos has gone viral, this is beyond our control. But now, our shop has been suspended - for what? For creating original, unique designs and photographing them in a way that attracts brides to buy from us on Etsy?

You can find our photos everywhere with a simple Google search, and trying to track them all down is impossible. I can bet a large amount of our images have been stolen from Etsy itself. As it stands, Etsy isn’t protecting sellers’ content, allowing anyone to click ‘save as’ and misuse these photos, while only Etsy’s top sellers seem to be flagged and copied!!

We’ve been on Etsy for years, with dresses priced over $2,000 (which I guess generates significant commissions for Etsy), and we maintain a 4.9-star rating. The fact that Etsy can’t do basic research or apply common sense is beyond frustrating. We hold a registered trademark, and yet this new system seems completely broken, with little to no real support.

As a long-standing, trusted seller, being treated this way is unacceptable. I understand that things change, but the lack of real assistance, the robotic responses, and the failure to address the real issue of stolen content - all while accusing me of not designing my own items - is incredibly unfair and disappointing. I wonder why this issue hasn’t reached the media yet, considering how many businesses are affected and in the same situation!

[CelticEternity]

I suppose Etsy has to decide the kind of marketplace it is these days.  When we started long ago, it was a platform meant for sellers of individual items that you just couldn't find elsewhere, and give sellers the ability to support themselves (I notice that the whole "quit your day job" pitch has died a quiet death).  Somewhere along the way Etsy appears to have abandoned this original plan, although not wanting to say it out loud.

I'd have to calculate how much, but our store has paid many, MANY tens of thousands of dollars to Etsy every year, hopefully helping their bottom line, their shareholders and their employees.  Our items are certainly more expensive than any of the knock-offs, and Etsy makes a substantial amount of money off of us because of the percentage they take, only a fraction of which they make from selling the counterfeits of the same designs.  I assume that there are still at least some sellers like us, and Etsy seems to appear to be not particularly bothered about shutting our shops.

I'm assuming that they're pursuing the same business model as Amazon and eBay, where they take a tiny sliver of profit from an almost endless number of sellers of increasingly cheap junk.  It's an endless race to the bottom.  We still (for now) have a business here on Etsy, and still make sales despite being far more expensive than those selling items using our stolen images, and I believe it's because we can offer quality and uniqueness to everything we sell, something the mass-manufacturers could never do.  This makes me think that Etsy's assumption that we can't compete with knock-offs is incorrect, but they seem to want to thread the needle and have both quality sellers and the bottomless well of sellers making worthless trinkets.

If Etsy believes that they can replace long-time Etsy sellers with expensive products with an endless parade of cheap sellers, I'm guessing that they'll get what they want.  I have a shrewd guess that this probably won't make them the next Amazon, just a competitor to Temu and AliExpress, but not as profitable.  Scraping the sludge from the bottom of the barrel likely won't make more money for Etsy, but it will continue to chase out sellers of unique items.  But for sellers like us, who still make everything from scratch, and employ a small team to create these things, this strategy feels like a losing proposition for all.

Doesn't appear to be win-win to me.  But I don't sit in a boardroom, I'm just the guy who makes things, so what do I know?

[digitaldoodlebug]

Etsy wants cheap AND "unique". They finally realized they need to stand out from the crowd so their new creativity standards keep highlighting unique (but the word doesn't mean to etsy what it does to the average person.) They now want "unique" to mean you can't find the first picture as the main image on another site. 

They also want to draw the same mass appeal that goes with cheap. Low prices, constant sales, mass produced "unique" items, etc. So they want to have their cake and eat it too. And are as short sighted ignoring resellers for years as they are throwing longtime sellers under the bus now to try and combat resellers.

[TrinketDrawersUK]

Considering the vast majority of images that are stolen and used elsewhere are from etsy shops, then it's etsy who should be chasing down infringement, rather than the shop who is paying for etsy to host those images. 

[BoomBlush]

Exactly! Surprisingly, it's only the Etsy "top sellers" that are being stolen so far. I have other stunning photos of the same gown on my Shopify store, but those don’t seem to be circulating all over the internet like the ones I've uploaded to Etsy.

[CraftyCornishMaids]

@TrinketDrawersUK 

Etsy cannot police our IP, we have to do it, by law, just like etsy can only accept IP reports from the owners or their legal representatives.

and you would be surprised, it is rampant on amazon too,
-  in many cases, it's a requirement to re-sell the item to use the manufacturers stock photo, so  the manufacturers go after the fake sellers, not the seller, as it's the manufactures photos
for sellers like myself there, we have to go after them, when they are stolen from us there too, Amazon can't.

....

Of course they target best sellers,

It's always been the case,

as my items sell better on Amazon than here, they steal from there, more than here. but they take the best sellers from both platforms

they are doing it to steal sales/revenue, so it makes sense they steal the popular ones,

that's why I don't understand why people are changing the photo, instead of issuing DCMA's, because they will only steal the new photo.

[LillyRoseStories]

@ScribblyCards

You're right.

[CreativeARTifacts]

@CraftyCornishMaids  Just curious, what are all these people on Amazon getting when they purchase your item that is another seller's photo?  You say Amazon is getting the money you should be getting on etsy?  Are they refunding the customer who doesn't get the item where your photos have been taken?  What are all these people buying exactly??

[CraftyCornishMaids]

I don't quite understand what you are saying.

When people buy from me on Amazon, they get my item

I have no idea what they get, when they buy from an aliexpress seller who stole my photo from Amazon, and stole my customer and therefore my income from me.

[CreativeARTifacts]

@CraftyCornishMaids  I'm not saying anything, I'm asking.  It sounds like you're in a constant fight with thieves stealing your photos.  I was wondering if you know what the buyer receives if they click on one of your photos used by an Amazon thief, but you said you don't know.  Didn't mean for you to get defensive, I was just curious since you seem to know so much about it. 

Just curious if you know what the buyer is getting.  Like some people shipping an empty box. 

[CraftyCornishMaids]

I still don't understand what you are saying,

do you expect me to buy from the seller on aliexpress to find out whether they are selling a poor quality replica? - they would be feeding the flames

[TrinketDrawersUK]

@CraftyCornishMaids As a professional photographer I'm well versed in issuing DMCA notices, unless you only have a handful of images it's all consuming, very expensive and at some point you have to weigh up the costs against the gain. Etsy needs to up it's game in how they deal with infringement especially when the images are being stolen from their own servers. Currently they seem to be choosing the easy option of picking on the etsy seller rather than investigating properly. 

[CraftyCornishMaids]

It's the sellers job to police their own IP, or hire someone to do it for them.

given anyone can do a print screen, it really doesn't matter what etsy does, the pictures will be stolen from the seller 

they could be being stolen from the seller via other sites too, like google, or all the other partners/platforms/social media , as the most popular ones come up there too.

mine are more regularly stolen from the ones I have on Amazon, I am sure if there was an easy way to stop it in the first place, Amazon would have done it by now.

Etsy can't police our IP, just like Amazon and e-bay don't. They are legally not allowed to, we have to.

If we don't , we have to live with the consequences.

.....

This is etsy way of dealing with a lot of problems on this site, and as this has been going on for quite a while now, I expect it is working as etsy intended, and any fallout is within their expectations.
If the fallout becomes unacceptable to Etsy (not to individual sellers), Etsy will change it themselves.

I'm not expecting it to change any time soon.

[GroundZeroCreations]

@CraftyCornishMaids 

"mine are more regularly stolen from the ones I have on Amazon, I am sure if there was an easy way to stop it in the first place, Amazon would have done it by now."

Yes, but Amazon, unlike Etsy, does not remove listings unless they receive a takedown notice. They also don't troll the internet searching for duplicate images.

I understand what Etsy may be trying to accomplish. But I do say "may be" for the simple fact that none of us know the real reason behind anything that Etsy does. However, I still maintain that Etsy should allow the shop to respond to the accusation they are making before deactivating or suspending something, unless they received a takedown notice. 

[CraftyCornishMaids]

@GroundZeroCreations 

amazon want resellers, they actively attract them, the images would, and should be everywhere else, they don't want unique,

They even want competition, with sellers selling the same thing on the platform, to drive prices down.

It's a very different platform, and it would be crazy for them to try to block pictures used elsewhere - it's their main point, - same items, lower price - cheaper/faster delivery 

they are a comparison site in themselves

they are even merging handmade, into the normal categories now, so even that uniqueness will go.

.....

they do block listings where sellers don't have the brand owners consent, and shut sellers for multiple offences.

[GroundZeroCreations]

@CraftyCornishMaids Amazon does not want resellers in their handmade sellers.

[CraftyCornishMaids]

@GroundZeroCreations 

Amazon is getting rid of handmade 

we are being merged into the other categories

What is changing?

As a reminder to our 2023 announcement, we are beginning a multi-year project to reclassify existing Handmade products from GUILD product types to standard product types.

A product type refers to a set of products that share similar attributes. For example, a lamp within the GUILD_HOME product type would move to the LAMP product type.

[GroundZeroCreations]

@CraftyCornishMaids Amazon is not getting rid of handmade. They are simply reclassifying the way these products are found in search in hopes of giving sellers more visibility."

Why does this matter?

Reclassifying Handmade products into standard product types enables the following features:

• Handmade products will appear when customers search and browse in standard categories. This is one of the top feature requests from our Handmade community. As a reminder, Handmade products are already discoverable in all products search.

• Handmade products will receive enhanced detail page content including larger product images and category-specific detail page features.

• Handmade products will appear in Seller Central’s Listing Quality Dashboard (LQD), which you can use to improve your Handmade products’ listing quality.

These features may help improve discoverability of your Handmade products and increase sales."

[CraftyCornishMaids]

they are going to classify them, and show them, just like everything else

It started with the white background, so the images were the same for search, and now it will be everything else.

[TrinketDrawersUK]

@CraftyCornishMaids You're missing the point, etsy are using AI algorithms to track down resellers by comparing images found on other sites, this is resulting in legitimate etsy sellers being shut down because it's cheaper than employing a human to check properly and results in more profit for their shareholders. 

[CraftyCornishMaids]

@TrinketDrawersUK 

You are missing the point, etsy is not only getting rid of resellers, but is paying megabucks with ad fees, to places like google, to compete against stolen photos , identical to the ones on this site, and it makes etsy look less unique

they are hitting 3 birds with one stone

resellers
less ad fees to places like google
Unique

win-win-win for etsy

Etsy are doing what is good for etsy.

Sellers need to police their own IP, that is what is good for sellers
which is also a win-win-win for sellers, because their items will look more unique, and they wont have people stealing their revenue off to other sites, and their sales here will increase.

.... which is why a lot of us were already doing it, before etsy thought it was a good idea too.

[BagmakerSupply]

I think that @CraftyCornishMaids has hit the nail on the head with 'UNIQUE'. Whether it is because a shop is reselling or because a shop's images have been stolen that item in that Etsy shop is no longer UNIQUE. It appears that Etsy is so intent on appearing to have unique items that the reason for an item not being unique is immaterial.

[StainedGlassYourWay]

I agree it is totally unfair, and efforts to constantly investigate and file take downs is just not feasible anymore with the huge number you'd need to keep filing repeatedly.  I filed several notices with ebay for one seller using 50 of my photos and they did nothing at all.  Do you also have your own website that you sell through?  If not, that is where you should be spending your time and effort to get up and running.  Then take any Etsy ad links you may have on social media and change them to your website.  

[TrinketDrawersUK]

@CraftyCornishMaids Unless the seller has just a few images ie a hundred or so it's not possible to police without the cost negating the result. Etsy needs to up it's game if it wants to keep unique hand made sellers because if it carries on without doing it fairly and without using human interaction it'll end up loosing what it's attempting to keep by cheapskating. 

[CraftyCornishMaids]

the problem is, with their pictures stolen, they are not unique, and they are costing etsy a lot in ad money, and perception etsy is not unique.

If etsy are getting the results they expect, within their tolerances, they won't change.

Etsy has upped their game, a lot, I have seen huge numbers of reseller disappear.
Etsy had to do something, to get the results they needed, within their budget/timeframes.
If this is doing it, within their tolerances, they will continue.

They may tweak it later, IF they think changing it will help Etsy.

sellers need to adapt, and they may be surprised, without all those thieves stealing their revenue, that policing their IP, actually increases their profit.

[TrinketDrawersUK]

@CraftyCornishMaids How do you expect genuine handmade etsy sellers which are mostly one person and not making a huge profit to afford to keep on top of IP? It's not an instant take down even if they could so they're still at risk of losing their shops.