Title Words..

[UniquesAndOddities]

On another forum we're having a discussion about the number of characters to put in title.

One person says that the words after 70 characters do no good?

What do you think? thanks mildred

[Former_Member]

UniquesAndOddities from UniquesAndOddities says

On another forum we're having a discussion about the number of characters to put in title.

One person says that the words after 70 characters do no good?

What do you think? thanks mildred
==========================
I think Mildred that I just noticed your request for information and it is supper time at my house. I need to go down and heat up a casserole I made and feed my dog.
But when I come back I will be more specific. I basically think there is so much miss-information floating around that no matter what the real answer is no one will fess up to it, acknowledge it nor be able to point at any traceable Etsy data that supports it.
I will however detail what I think and why and leave it up to you to ask any clarifying questions you wish to ask and will make every attempt to answer them honestly and completely. Fair enough?
But right off the top of my head, words after about 70 characters are pretty much pointless. Not, no good. And there is a big difference between no good and pointless.
But that is an opinion and it makes good sense to me as to why!

[UniquesAndOddities]

Well....that's the reason I came to you...

I'm going to have to think about 'pointless' and 'no good'...

I have been going over some of my stuff (it is terrible) and filling in the titles...so I'll just quit adding to the titles.

At this time of the day, I do not know that I want any clarifying...just YOUR word..

Thanks for the word from the Master. Good night mildred

[Former_Member]

Mildred,
Supper done, dog fed and I found my reference material so here is my answer to your question and I hope it helps.
Master? You are stretching things a bit, but I like it. So here goes.
Ask for any clarification you feel is needed.

This is the only suggested recommendation that I have seen come from Etsy on title length.
Now please carefully note the operative words. Suggested Recommendation.
That is a whole lot different then a set of operative instructions on going about things. Implied in a suggested recommendation is that there are other ways to go about things.

http://www.etsy.com/blog/en/2009/seller-workshop-recap-tags-titles-descriptions-and-most-rele/

This is the URL of a blog written in June 2009.
A blog is usually interpreted as some ones opinion.
Rather than a set of specific instructions.
Also it is roughly 3 years old.
A document which is hardly current.
And this is my opinion. Not a set of instructions.
The very first few sentences in this blog though give a few very valid reasons why this recommendation is given and these reasons need to be thought of in how they apply to a shoppers view point of your product as listed.
The reasons are:
Q: How long should my item titles be?
A: We suggest three to seven words. The most important words in your title should be first, as the first 18 characters of your title are going to be seen in Gallery View in Etsy Search, and the first few words will be the ones displayed on external search engine results
Now 3 to 7 words loosely conform to 70 characters depending on how you identify the letter content of words in a sentence but close is good enough for the moment.

What exactly is important words?
Those are the words that define what it is that you have for sale. And here in becomes the point of controversy.
Are these the words some one is going to use to search with?
Well no.
There are an estimated 40,000,000+ people visiting Etsy monthly. Pray tell how do you expect to have the remotest clue what words people are going to use to search with or why they would use them.
There are a claimed 900,000 stores on Etsy.
Lets assume just for a moment what is the make up of people owning stores here on Etsy. Just for the sake of discussion how many of those people do you believe are actually familiar with shopping on the internet, using search engines to find what they are looking for so that it can be done efficiently. And comparing that assumption with the some 40 million people who found their way to Etsy by using a search engine to locate what they are looking for which of those groups, the potential customers who found their way here by using a search engine vs the people who own stores who for the most part probably don’t know how to use a search engine well which is the larger group and which ones are better suited to tell you how they go about looking for things. That is a group of sellers or a group of buyers.
And specifically how many store owners as a percentage actually buy things here.
Etsy stresses browsing, because many of store owners stress browsing as a method of finding things. But looking up the definition of browsing it is a random method of passing time.
Where as shopping is generally considered some one looking for a defined object with a budget to spend.
Browsing is looking at pictures to see if you like something.
Shopping is determining the description of something to see if it fits what is being looked for.
Browsers rarely care about reading what is for sale.
Shoppers learned to read a long time ago and depend on it to identify what is in the picture.
A browser will look at listings how ever they are found using large pictures.
Shoppers will read titles to determine what is for sale.
A Browser will look at listings in Gallery Mode which gives you large pictures and a very small portion of the title visible.
A shopper will look at a thumbnail and read the title.
And the first few words of the title identify what is for sale.
And that is what makes them important.

Not how they are found in a search.
Because a search is a function of a well written search engine used by a shopper as a tool to find what they are looking for. And the better a search is written the better the list of items found is as representative of what is being looked for.

A browser doesn’t care.
And if a shopper has to decode a poorly written title that does not describe what is being looked at they will pass on to the next item. They do not have time to be bothered with decoding the verbal diarrhea of a long rambling incoherent title.
So if you want your title read as describing what it is you are listing the suggested recommendation of 3 to 7 words makes a whole lot of sense.

At least it does to me.
That is what I mean by making it longer is pointless. It has nothing to do with being found, it has everything to do with being ignored.

As to being found. That is a function of being able to create a well written search for the times you want to find and have a list of them generated for you.
It depends on having a functional search engine for you to use, either a powerful general search that Etsy used to have or a viable alternative with a structured category drill down that Etys has never had and does not have now. AND the capability of using either one of them.

Now a long rambling title might very well be found by some using a search engine and placed on a list before a listing that has a better and shorter title. But it will also be ignored as incomprehensible by a shopper so what is the point of having one. When a shorter concise title will be read and understood. And there is no guarantee that something like that will be found and listed first. Why? Because what is found depends on the search used and you can not predict that.
So to insure your product being found it needs to be described when listed in the most concise and accurate means possible so when some one reads the title they will know what it is and not have to guess. Because a shopper having to guess will pass.
Also if your product is written using a short concise terms the probability the search used to find it with will also be short and concise. And because the act of finding is by matching search terms to listing terms the probability that the search and listing will be a better match using short and concise terms.

I would guess that when you are shopping if you have to stop and figure out what you are looking at you blow it off. I know I do.

And think about one other thing as part of the complexity of the overall problem of having your products found by some one looking for them.
Etys now has some 900,000+ shops according to their published statements. And while the monthly weather reports report glowing increases of Etsy venue gross sales, the individual shop sales has staid pretty much steady and slightly decreasing at 4-5 items per month with a gross sales per shop of about $120.00 a month. That number is largely driven by the increase in customers per month balanced off by the increase in the number of functional shops per month. The problem is that the infrastructure does not seem to support the increase is size because the monthly Etsy sales figures can be accounted for by less than 2% of the 40 million visitors a month. That of course means 98% of them go away with out every buying anything. Making me wonder why? Does that mean there is nothing that they can find that is suitable or does it mean that they are unable to find anything at all? And if it the last the listing criteria and the search criteria used to find things with is defective.

[UniquesAndOddities]

Hey..I read your post, but gonna come back and read it again.

One point about browsing....It is crafters looking at other crafters to: 1. Find something new to made 2. Find out how to made a particualr craft and 3. Find out much they can charge for what they make.

I appreciate your help.... mildred

[Former_Member]

The Act of searching or using a search engine.
It works by matching words in search request to words in listings.
First to words in Title
Second to words in Tags.
The more concise the title the better the odds are there will be a good match by a search request.
Short concise Titles will have a higher probability of being read by a person searching.
Long titles, will still have matches found with them but the matches will of a lower priority.
Long titles though have a higher probability of being ignored by some one trying to read them thus not read.
Tags? Are the place to put synonyms, alternative spellings, miss-spellings, important materials, colloquialisms, commonly used base colors, and any alternative terms that can be used to describe your product especially things included in the description.

The Act of Browsing.
A term used to randomly sample a variety of un-identified things generally for the purpose of entertainment.
It has no set pattern or method nor a defined objective. It is a most inefficient method to find something specific and generally as there is not objective in mind, invalid as data to write a business plan around.

Everyone browses at some time or another but it is a very poor method to use to find something specific with and is happenchance if you actually find something you like.

So yes people will browse as you say to obtain a sample maybe of a product that can be made or a pricing range of similar product but it still is a random way of finding things. There are better more efficient ways of coming up with product samples for pricing comparisons.

As this is a team dedicated to the use of Tags and therefore Titles as those two items are the primary means of identifying products that are listed for sale. They are also the primary search field for the Etsy Search Engine to use and the primary areas that will be read by people using a search engine to identify products.
A title that is relatively short and concise has a higher probability of being read by a person over one that is lengthy and disjointed in format. The advantage of a short and Concise title is that it WILL be read.
There is also an advantage to a short concise title when found by a search engine in the priority it has when matched by a search engine to a search request.
A long rambling title may have only portions of it matched thus giving it a lower priority at that point in time.