Let's Share Secrets...

[MagicStones]

I am glad that I was invited to join this team. It is nice to be included in this talented circle of stone cutters.

I want to share a lapidary secret and also encourage others to share any techniques they have discovered in making cabochons.

My secret is how to make drusy sparkle its best. Take a finished cab with drusy and spray it with scentless Easy Off stove cleaner. Place it in a zip lock baggie over night then wash it with soap and a fine tooth brush the next day. The druse sparkles beautifully. I have done this with quartz druse only...not sure what will happen with softer stones.

Bill

[Former_Member]

Wow, I was wondering how to clean up this little piece, druzy on two sides!
I'm gratefull. Now there must be something I can add here...

I suppose it's cabbing small stones. I trim a strip about 5mm wide, then trim cubes, stick them, grind them to the diametre I need by rolling the stick in my fingers against the very edge of a wheel... proceeding through various grits, remove from the stick and grind the bottom flat.

[Former_Member]

Wow 40 years to pull from......most of my tips come from having to do thousands and I look at a step and multiply by thousands and say to myself .....this step needs changed. I sure as HELL would not want to do it that way a thousand times.!!!
But here is one. when I grind dopped stones I keep them in a plastic strainer basket. I usually dop up several hundred at at time and the severl basket strainers keeps the dopped stones relitivly dry but allso keeps the stones all together for a given step. When i leave the stones in the basket and come back a few days later i can not remember the exact last grit they were ground at.....and looking at the cab will not tell you either. So one day I took several of those little 2 inch x 3 inch little jewelry plastic bags and put a note in each bag of all the grits I use. So when I am working from one labeled basket and when working the grit and moving into the next labeled basket with each stone. I just look into the basket and it has the last grit used on those stones in that basket from the little bag with the note in it.. The notes need protected from water....so that is the reason for the bag...Laminating would work also. But bags are cheap. Now this would work for one stone or a thousand...just tells you where you were at when you left the studio. I could not work with out these little notes myself. But did for many years....

[ChrissiLynnDesigns]

This is great!!! Thanks so much for the info, MagicStones. Do you mind posting this in the main thread for the month? We are trying to get more participation in the main thread and suggestions like these are great! I can highlight the informative posts so they don't get lost in the discussions. Thanks a bunch!

[ChrissiLynnDesigns]

Bill..that is an awesome tip for the drusy!!!! Does it work for after polishing as well. It seems like as careful as I can be when polishing a piece with a drusy stone, I still manage to get compound into the stone. I wonder if the Easy Off would be okay with the silver?

[Former_Member]

I like that tip about druzy. I saw some one show how to save posts in a file to use later. i will have to figure that out to keep these great info finds.

[Former_Member]

Bill does this process get all the little tiny crevices clean or does it still leave films or scale. ??
I have watched use of using these hand held paint guns which shoot water or a water soap mixture out the nozzle with enough pressure to cut into your skin at the nozzle....less with distance.
Also I see use of like sand blasting but using baking soda instead..this was used on high end collector crystals. But both methods were used on quartz and similar crystals.
The reason for my asking is another direction I am taking in stone cutting and going more natural,keeping the original shapes and forms I find in stone.

[ChrissiLynnDesigns]

Bill...I highlighted your post, so it will stay at the top. That's such an awesome tip.

[MagicStones]

Greetings,
@ Jim- I've only used it in crevices and druzy vugs in cabs and it works great.
@ Chrissi- I usually use it with finished cabochons. I have used it on rough too to see what was usable in the slab. I don't work with silver so I would experiment before using it on a finished piece.

Careful, I used it once on a stone with calcite and the snow white calcite yellowed...it still looked great but it wasn't what I intended.

[Former_Member]

I know years ago they used muratic acid to clean a lot of the quartz crystals with. Muratic is a concrete cleaner sold at hardware stores. I think there was another acid also. My life started with rocks as a kid from an interest collecting--hunting level but then got very focused into the silver turquoise boom back in 1973.....yes most here were not born yet and have no idea what I am talking about again.!!!
But while rocks were my start I have never even tumbled a bunch of little rocks to a polish.i have very little hobby rock knowledge or specimen rock knowledge. I never had a dad that had a grinder and we ground our first agate we found.
In fact for years I cut softer stones and would think...what idiot would spend the time to cut a stupid agate. But over time i found agates and jaspers and learned to appreciate them also. Then hate to show my age but they invented diamond wheels..yes I come from the stone age of cutting on stone wheels..( carborundum) but with a diamond...wow ..all is possible
Diamonds are a lapidary artist's best friend i can say.

[ChrissiLynnDesigns]

Thanks Magicstones...that is good to know. I'll try it out on some silver when I get the chance...I wonder if cooking oil would work to keep the compound out. Hmmm...now you have me thinking about all the possibilities.

[Former_Member]

I was just posting and thought of a secret. When I cut rhodochrocite,I find it has properties that will not allow it to stick to my dop wax. I use the best dop wax...but it just will not adhere to it. So before I dop the slices to grind to cabs I put them on a wax paper and put some super glue underneath each slice. The super glue when dry is clear and probally gives the stone some needed strength anyway but the dop wax will adhere to the super glue applied under the cab...

[Former_Member]

I use super glue a lot anyway to give some stones needed strength. Fossil Ivory is a very unstable material and cracks and splits. I put super glue under it also. I grind fossil ivory outside and dry. But many unstable materials need super glue. I find charolite very splintery and use it under that material also. i think a stone needs to last in jewelry and not just last long enough to be sold to a jewelry maker. My name is on my jewelry and I put in any thing I can to increase its longevity. I know we have these purist gem cutters......well I have 40 years building and repairing jewelry to pull from and I think the customer wants their jewelry to last. I think that should take first consideration. I think we confuse things with disclosure with the missed concept that all jewelry is not precious.

[MagicStones]

Thanks James for the superglue dop secret. The only stabalizer I ever use is super glue. After the 600 grit wheel I take the cab and wash it with alcohol. Then I heat it up on my dop heater. Finally I touch up the vug with the superglue. Don't get the superglue heated fumes in your eyes...it really hurts.

Does anyone know the best kind of superglue to use?

Bill

[JFrancoisStudios]

Cool tip on the superglue.

I regularly use superglue as the dop. A little drop in the center back of the stone, a 3" length of stainless steel threaded rod for the stick and you're in business.

It needs to cure before you can cut, obviously, and the acetone bath to get the dop back off can be a pain. But I drop far fewer stones off the dop while cutting than with wax.

I've never had an issue with the acetone affecting the stone, but I have heard stories from others that stabilized stuff can be damaged.

[Former_Member]

Thanks for the creative tips!

[Former_Member]

Well as for price I go to a little store called dollar general and they sell a double tube of super glue for 1.00. it has these little screw top bottles with a red top on them. i buy several at a time so I do not run out. I have some old fiberglass food trays from a buffet. I put a double layer of wax paper down and glue many things at a time. I take them out to my porch and apply the accelerator. It stinks and the glue using that much also stinks and you need fresh air. DO NOT DO THIS IN AN UNVENTED ROOM !!!!!!!! I have out in my porch studio room a bench with a fan blowing outside. I do this right in front of that fan blowing the air outside. Super glue is dangerous and I always were my glasses to protect my eyes. we had some splash into my first wives eyes years ago and had to take her to emergency.
PS the accelerator from Rio works on that glue I use. I do not like the little silly tubes. I like the twist on cap.
I also find when I do not use the accelerator the glue seems to just disappear into the cracks or ?? I like it to set right when I apply it and where I apply it.

[Former_Member]

I use super glue on my auto cab machines for the glue. when you grind a 1000 stones a day...dopping is a huge time and vollume thing. But I did find to get the dops undone I did use acetone but as Jason stated will affect any plastic material. But what I found that lossened the stone from the Brass dops I used was a rice steamer. Super glue does not like water and steam it really hates. steam from a rice steamer loosened the stones from the brass dops.Acetone will fill up with super glue and become sticky with vollume. Just one of those cheap rice steamers with the basket will lossen super glue.
I tried every thing back then..yes the freezer approach and many others...steam was best.

[Former_Member]

Just a little post to behind the scenes stuff. I have been consulting and working with a person who is setting up to cut professionally for Jay Kings mine finds on QVC. I sold him a machine I worked on some of the developments of and some of the tooling. It is fun to see your projects get mainstream. He informed me he is doing well and already into some production. I think his first cabs are actually to be used in drawer pulls handles in a insert. They are water jetting the blank and final grinding to exact shape on my auto cab machine. I will post later some of the final links on this project.....fun to see there are options in this business.

[ChrissiLynnDesigns]

Great tips! A lapidary friend of mine uses the brass rods and super glue. Works great...same reason..it holds better than the dop wax. The only exception we found was on some of the harder agates like Montana and Medicine Bow. For the life of us, we couldn't get the glue to stick to the medicine bow agate. It had a similiar effect of trying to use superglue on glass...just wasn't porous enough. We didn't use an accelerator though.

[Former_Member · Accepted solution]

I use plexiglass for my dops. I buy it in long rods and cut to my size. Smooth on my fingers...sticks like glue to dop wax and is light and will last for many years. also much cheaper than metal. I never have ANY fall off after being dopped. Unless I drop them on my cement floor.I usually dop up about 300 - 500 stones at a time..and yes totally hand cut..this is not the autocab method. I also buy several diameters for the different size stones I cut. Plastic will not bang against other stones worked on and chip. It is the ultimate dop material. Wood dops swell and break loose the dop wax. I gave them up years ago.

[Former_Member]

Just a little add for this topic..Stone polishing ???
I know I have problems with this subject myself. Especially when cutting a new material I have never cut.
I do not know how many cut here the many different stones out there, but many have polishing secrets. The same polish steps do not work for all materials..actually many require different steps and polishing compounds through even special acids and burnishing the stone surface shiny. The speeds used vary with each as well as the material the disk plate or pad or buff is made from differ quite a bit also. I know we each probably have one polishing pad or buff or disk and that is what we use. But when studying the past over many years and what was learned about each material and how each was mastered we find many techniques....I just found and bought a book covering many of these and also my many years to pull from..so if any need information about certain stones and are having problems...ask away maybe I have an answer..hopefully.
I know myself I am always working on new material and find it does not work the same as others I have done. lapis,jade,charolite, turquoise,amber,opal ...those are all different..
Of course we have new stuff found every year and need new answers.

[StoneTemple]

True confessions; Quartz is my nemasis, small flats and convex are no problem, I use cerium on leather but the backs of larger cabs - forget it., I'll lap flat on maybe 280, then hit the nova type wheels- 600 looks good, 1200 looks good 14,000 glosses up with big scratches, go back to 600, looks good again, 1200... over and over, round and round. Sometimes the 14,000 looks good but then the cerium on leather polishes up with big scratches. I usually figure it's the cerium clumping and scratching but not sure. Occasionally I luck out but it takes me many tries. I usually just give up and add it to the pile that I will finish when I learn how to do it right.

[StoneTemple]

I finally figured out how to polish M'torolite chalcedony using colloidal silica on leather. I use leather pretty much exclusively. I had tried cerium, alumina (saphire), Holy Cow, chrome oxide, Linde, 50,000 diamond, all with the same result, a satiny almost orange peel type finish. Then I tried the colloidal silica and BAM! A polish :D

[Former_Member]

Hey Mark
Thanks for that...I have never had much luck with lapis or jade.. I avoid the stuff but have a bunch of both in my stuff..so will have to pull out and figure that out.. I did read in my new book about also the speed at which your leather lap turns at also affects shine...I cut a few star garnets a few years ago and had hell with them and when at large rock show met a man that was good at them....The polish for them came when the surface of the stone actually melted or burnished at the final step and Boom you had shine. I know the old timers had acid tricks like vinegar and other acids that created a surface tension and again burnished the shine.... I find most lapidary people do not want to talk these subjects and I love them myself...if I am not pushing myself... will just take a nap.
I got in another ultrasonic drill this last week and another Genie to set up for carving and another small 6 inch saw I am working with to get rid of harmonic vibration that has been plauging me with fragile fracturing material i work with ....Fun to talk about...