Masquerade mask MADE IN CHINA

[Former_Member]

I notice these sellers carry products manufacturer from China and the U.S. from these companies i found online (KBW Global Corp, Kayso International, Bauer Imports and from China Chaozhou Xiangqiao).
I Have evidence showing the same mask from these companies. I've attached pictures from there website. Nothing is handmade by these sellers. Everything is being bought from these companies and being sold here.

PLEASE HELP REPORT THESE SELLERS ON ETSY. ITS NOT RIGHT FOR OTHER SELLERS WHO ARE ACTUALLY HAND MAKING THE MASK! WE NEED TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE.

-Linda felix


4everstore
http://www.etsy.com/shop/4everstore

Masquerademaskstudio
http://www.etsy.com/shop/MasquerademaskStudio

Venetianmasque
http://www.etsy.com/shop/VenetianMasque

Evidence
www.aliexpress.com/store/414215 (Chaozhou) no login required to see pictures
www.Kaysoinc.com no login required to see picures
www.Kbwcorp.com Login is required (will provide if requested)

[DaraGallery]

Linda,

We have. Many times over. It does nothing. They started appearing in the spring with hundreds of products. The shop owners claim to be "designers" and "makers" but its the same exact designs used by KBW Global, Kayso, etc. etc. If they even chose which color acrylic gem is added to the mask I'd be surprised.

These shops also sell the same exact masks for about $10 less at their eBay stores (though at least one has gotten wise and changed the name slightly on eBay after people began noticing and left comments on consumer rip off boards). So essentially they are hurting everyone's credibility.

Etsy will do nothing. These shops have raked in $20 K to $30K since the spring - 3/4s of that profit since the masks go for $8 or less on Alibaba. They dominate the search results and I don't think its just their sheer numbers or that they relist often. They seem to have fixed spots on the first 11 or 12 pages, though it might just be that their incredibly number of views/sales land them there. When we (small shops) relist or list new items they go right to page 12 or 14. With Etsy's new "handmade means you can use a manufacturer" policy and the old "minimal actual hand assembly is ok" policy they basically just have to claim they put on a few rhinestones or a ribbon or "worked with" the Chinese manufacturer and they are Etsy legal.

Welcome to the Brave New Etsy. ...still, being here is cheaper and better exposure than dealing with brick and mortar store owners or galleries and their 30% to 40% commissions :)

[DaraGallery]

Oh, and there was a shop that opened up after them here and on Zibbet called ElegantxBoutique. When she joined this team she asked for advice on how to improve sales (and her sales were already pretty darn good for just opening up shop). I pointed out that she might want to have other designs than those made by the companies you noted above or ask the advice of the shops selling the same exact design here. Her reply was this:

"Dara, I really don't appreciate you telling me to get advice from the other sellers. If you really want to know who is the real deal, ask them for the process of making a mask. I can guarantee the seller's have no clue."

So, she was accusing them of reselling - unlike her. Well, her shop is no longer on Etsy. Banned? Who knows. I did notice she was undercutting two of the shops you mentioned, who haven't been banned. And don't seem to get in a price war with each other. Curious.

Anyway, this whole convo will probably be deleted for calling out anyway.

[DaraGallery]

And the 4everstore, on their amazon account they have no qualms listing the manufacturer as Kayso: http://www.amazon.com/Black-Queen-Venetian-Masquerade-Rhinestones/dp/B00CM2TUCI/ref=aag_m_pw_dp?ie=U... and notice the price difference ... and all the other products they're reselling.

Only 18 left in stock guys! Hurry up and grab 'em.

[DaraGallery]

Of course, their eBay store is much cheaper: http://stores.ebay.com/kc-4everstore and you can buy Disney licensed products and soccer balls too!

[artisanmaskers]

Very, very interesting. Also, very sad. I know that the new Etsy guidelines were probably intended to allow certain kinds of artists leeway in selling (i.e. designers who have someone else do their metal casting for jewelry), but if it really is allowing/promoting blatant re-selling over actual handmade, it's a real shame. That's what made Etsy so great! You're right, though, that they still are the best/cheapest option for many of us.

If it helps you feel *slightly* better a friend of mine did report a shop a few months back (perhaps the one you referenced, Dara?) and they did get closed down. So. Small victory, perhaps, but at least it's SOMEthing.

[DaraGallery]

Well, Amanda, I have a feeling the one you are talking about was only closed down for ripping photos from the "top seller." And she wasn't one of the ones I reported. No, it was the one listing which major chinese manufacturer they use on their amazon store. The one that's made about $80K here since the spring listing things for as low as $9.95 on eBay that they list here for $32.95. Blah.

[TheMidway]

You would think at the very least they would get in trouble for using others photos of celebrities/models and TV screen shots as their product images <.<

[ElvenDesignArt]

You are so right Dara T.
I, personally, feel on my own skin that these shops with china masks are here. I cannot low my prices and I cannot compete with them..and so..my handmade masks which are made with a lot of care and fine deluxe materials wait and wait for a customer that appreciate the quality . That's sad!

[Former_Member]

Eesh! Tell me about it. Although I did kind of have an idea from this thread. we could always start a FB group "the Mask Makers of etsy" that way bitching and kvetching won't get the ban hammer or get anyone kicked off. The "play nice or else" gets really old here. I understand it to a certain degree but its become excessive. *sigh* makes me miss regretsy. I know I've said it before but I do.

I would just like some views! Mine have been awful this year- how have all of yours been?

[Former_Member]

I'm feeling your pain. The maskmakers on Etsy create incredible, one-of-a-kind works of art, and hopefully shoppers will get tired of seeing the same cheap factory made masks that have flooded the site and start noticing them.

My views started tanking last May. Last November and December my monthly views were 2191 and 2996. My views for the same months this year are 928 and 721. Very depressing. I'm in if you start a FB page, MaskEra :)

[DaraGallery]

@ MaskedEra. Did you see this new blog? Looks like they want to be the next Regretsy. http://rusetsy.wordpress.com/ . I find their style a bit harsh, but who ever it is is prolific. Hmmm, maybe they'd like some metal laser cut mask links. I have a ton. FB is fine. There are a number of LinkedIn groups with certain members that have been quite vocal about the mass produced/ reselling issue in the past though their main focus is helping each other.

@ Nora. Wow. I did okay with views/sales from Sept- Dec bec I added Victorian style brocade Xmas ornaments this year. Mask sales for the New Years crowd were down though despite having a better selection of couples masks.

It's saying something when you've been here awhile, have such a beautiful selection, but views have tanked like that. It's the same as what I've read in the forums about ppl's income cut by 2/3 in the last few months.

I don't think its a coincidence that 4everstore & masquerademaskstudio came on around the same time (the spring). It doesn't help that Etsy promotes them heavily in the Google search ads. And the relevancy program is obviously favoring them. I mean god bless them if they really are customizing 3000 sold masks since the spring. Yeah, right. What am I saying?

I guess we just have to wait for the announcement that the percentage taken at sale is going up 6.4% so that Etsy's transition to a high end eBay will be complete.

@ all - Whatever the intention was/is it certainly isn't favoring people who put the time in to make elaborate handcrafted items. It doesn't even seem to favor real designers/makers like Tom Branwell or OakMyth who outsource some of the work. We're all buried in the searches now behind questionable "designers" selling Chinese goods and doing marginal (if any) work. I'm sounding whiny and am going to stop.

Hopefully, the metal laser cut shops aren't all in collusion like some seem to be and will start under-pricing each other into oblivion. But one started doing that and is now banned ... interesting.

[EbonyShaeDesigns]

Hmmmm, well that explains a few things for me....

I was disappointed with my Halloween sales (the same as last year) despite having 2ce as much stock. And yes, my views are down over the last quarter or so too. I thought that since really I am in a different category (selling patterns) that it wouldn't affect me, but perhaps it is across the board?

I tried to do my own little bit of sleuthing with 4evastore. I have started a group on facebook, just for anyone who likes, sells, makes masks, and each week we feature a new artist or store (www.facebook.com/groups/609994342384226/).

I contacted 4evastore after the shop owner wrote basically said the same as you are quoting Dara - that she lazer cut everything, etc on a different forum. I told her we were featuring her work and invited her (as I do all the artists) to have a 'conversation' with me during the week about her process, inspirations, etc. Funnily enough, she declined to reply.....

I don't want to be bitter, or conspiratorial, but I must confess to being, well.... disappointed....

[DaraGallery]

So she has a 20K laser cutting machine in her backyard? How convenient. Well, it seems someone should be suing someone for stealing template designs then bec her most "popular" one https://www.etsy.com/listing/158083725/luxury-black-laser-cut-venetian?ref=sr_gallery_5&ga_search_qu... is also being sold by Masquerade Collection here https://www.etsy.com/listing/165272745/masquerade-mask-collection-luxury-black?ref=sr_gallery_13&ga_... and the Venetian Mask shop here: https://www.etsy.com/listing/164076091/black-silver-laser-cut-metal-venetian?ref=sr_gallery_30&ga_se... and can be obtained from eBay at thw Free Shipping shop here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Luxury-Metal-Filigree-Laser-Cut-Venetian-Masquerade-Mask-w-Rhinestones... How about going to teh source - the Chaozhou Xiangqiao Yuhan Craft Factory - http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/1233219705/Perfect_Luxury_Venetian_Black_Metal_Filigree.html

You'll find a lovely selection of the phantom and skull laser cut masks too that are so popular now.

Of course, you can't just have a laser cutting machine, you also need injection molds, etc for the resin ones like this: https://www.etsy.com/listing/156318973/venetian-masquerade-mardi-gras-mask?ref=shop_home_active which can be found at Vivo masks here: http://www.vivomasks.com/products/colombina-barocco-sole-white or here :http://masquerade-ball-masks.co.uk/colombina-barocco-sole-white/ or http://www.bakebros.com/venetian-half-masquerade-mardi-gras-mask-vintage-design-for-men-white/ (note the product description and compare it to their about page, "We simply have the goal in mind to..." rip off others text as well as their pics?).

Though I've traced a lot to Kayso, KBW Global and the Yunan Craft Factory, the dozen or so shops on eBay like this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Luxury-Mysterious-Roman-Greek-Style-Party-Costume-Venetian-Masquerade-Mens-M... don't want to cough up the manufacturer of the roman masks.

[EbonyShaeDesigns]

Ok, well then if we believe that this shop is not complying with Etsy guidelines, all we can do is stop the name and shame here (which is also against guidelines I believe????) and each report our concerns directly to Etsy. I encourage everyone who has written on here, who feels strongly, to do the same for the sake of all our businesses.

Surely if many people report in as much detail as possible, Etsy will either require the sellers to a) either actually add some embellishments, or b) take more drastic action.

I for one will continue to believe that together we can achieve more than we can alone.....

[beadmask]

Unfortunately, I believe that this kind of mass production is acceptable to Etsy now, given their new whacked out definition of "handmade".

[DaraGallery]

Been there. Done that. Got nowhere. Since Trust & Integrity deals with it within three weeks, 4ever & Maquerade Mask must have been declared Etsy legal. You might have more luck with Elle magazine since they ripped some of the photos from their Feb "Dark Angel" layout. We can't claim copyright infringement but they can.

Oh look. Elegant is back. And she's underpricing them by 5-6 dollars again. Using the same photos. This should be fun to watch. https://www.etsy.com/listing/163432867/classic-black-metal-laced-metallic?ref=sr_gallery_5&ga_search...

[Former_Member]

Yeah that site is psuedo-regretsy. In that it calls attention to the problems with etsy, but it feels so bitter and angry. I loved regetsy because of its protests through humor, and by doing this drew attention to a problem in etsy to people who are not necessarily part of it, as well as gave those of us in it a place to let off a little steam and laugh. Ah well.

I agree with Andrea. Unfortunately, I could drive a mac truck through their definition of handmade and it would still count... so long as I claimed I designed it. And as for "designing" it, requesting the manufacturer's send me one that's blue.

[DaraGallery]

You mean like the guy with the hummingbird bird feeder hat and their "take a pic of yourself with you weird etsy purchase and post it here" section? Yes. That was great.

There is some good news in that, however the relevancy program works, when you search on Masquerade Mask (top key word) it's not 80% Metal masks these days. We do seem to have some reserved spots on the first 12 pages. Or are they curated? I read that they aren't but it seems odd how it works. And the 'metals market" is flooded now with four or five new shops selling teh same exact thing so that should scare off a few ppl looking for unique items.

A couple of days ago On Fire for Handmade featured my Handmade Artist shop which was great. I guess you just have to ignore all the handmade hype on Etsy and diversify. Now I just need a sale there :)

It was also refreshing that one of them was booted from Zibbet's within about a month of being up there. I didn't realize she was the one that got a lot of heat when Etsy featured her shop on FB right before Halloween. That might explain why she was down for awhile.

[beadmask]

I agree about Regretsy being effective through the use of humor. The anger of this other site is off putting (though somewhat understandable).

As to the mass production, I really believe that Etsy has been planning it for some time. A few weeks before they announced it, I was looking through my GA reports and noticed an odd spike in traffic from China. All of these hits could be traced back to a forum in Taiwan, and the specific thread was about how to sell on Etsy. They gave detailed information, including demographics for target users, how to market to them, popular product categories, and ways to brush up on basic English/slang, so as to give the shop a more indie/handmade feel.

The forum had quite a few threads along these lines, devoted to different details/nuances of selling (presumably mass produced goods) on Etsy, while retaining a handmade image. I cannot tell you how freaked out I was to find links to some of my products as examples of what to sell/make :(

It definitely sent me into a tailspin, and unfortunately, I let it hurt my productivity and sales during my busiest season. This is one of many reasons that I am looking to make this a much smaller facet of my business. With that being said, it's great to hear that Zibbet is more stringent about what they consider to be handmade... but how is the traffic/sales over there? What is their stance on copyright (are they totally hands off, like here?) I see a lot of people moving in that direction, but it doesn't look like they're getting a whole lot of action. Quite the conundrum.

[DaraGallery]

Do you have the link to that thread, Bead? I'd be interested in reading it. That is pretty incredible. Actual links to your items so they can duplicate the handmade look and feel. Rip off the artist. Rip off the public.

I'd like to say you don't have to worry bec your items are too complex and high end for Commerce City to duplicate, but that's what they thought about American quilting ... Or that manufacturers may not bother bec high end masks appeal to a limited market, but then I found this on Alibaba http://uk.alibaba.com/product/896813907-Velvet-Brocade-Covery-Two-Ribbon-Tied.html ... pretty high end, not your typical mardi gras thing and suspiciously like Effigy's work.

I knew something was up in the Spring when one Company in particular was allowed to stay on despite multiple employees, a million in revenue a year and a wholesale division (yes, I linked all that info to Integrity). I've wondered once or twice if the Spring batch of metal laser shops are just fronts for the manufacturers and were coached. Their About pages say just what they have to say to be legal. It doesn't really match their product though (they talk about "eco-friendly" paper mache while selling metal and resin) and are generic. In which case, did they get a green light to come on here with their scores of product at $32.95?

It's like the word has been out for awhile.

The thing is how could Etsy not know that this would be the result.... established American companies and overseas factories flooding the marketplace? They have to now with shops like 4ever pulling in 90K since the spring.

So, you basically thumbed your nose at handmade artists by taking away the insulating "handmade" requirement (bec we just can't produce enough trendy stuff quickly) and may be betraying them again by encouraging overseas partners that are encouraging new users to rip off the handmade feel, look and designs?

I mean Taiwan is enterprising, but did they do it all on their own or did Accel Partners, who has those ties, push everyone in the right direction? Since the influx was in the spring and Bead's GA spike was before October ... well, I'm jumping to conclusions, but the whole thing smells too much like the corporate raiders of the 80s.

Normally, I'd say, "Hey, its their company and they have to go in the best direction for survival." But the company really didn't build this brand - the Shops built the brand.

Sparrow Salvage has an interesting little blog on their take on Etsy's direction here: http://sparrowsalvage.blogspot.com/2013_08_01_archive.html . It's worth a read.

ZIbbet - its growing. Up about 29,000 in the last three months in the Alexa ratings. Still way behind Artfire - which has fallen slightly. My views are up, but no sales so far. They've hired new staff and are planning to overhaul the interface soon. I think it may be in Beta... don't know haven't read the updates. Indie Made has been getting a lot of good press if you like more of a storefront. Anyone have experience with them?

Copyright infringement. Well, unlike here, I haven't seen it, but they're small so it's easy to patrol. Who knows what it will be like when they get more successful? I do know from the forums that it took at least two of us providing links to manufacturers to get one of our friendly neighborhood resellers removed. They told me at first (bec they actually do respond very quickly) that she cleared their inspection. I guess they reinspected.

I keep wondering what Amazon or eBay will do once Etsy gets a little bigger. Macy's may not bother much with Target bec the Macy's buyers make sure the toaster they get from Sunbeam is of better quality and has more features than the one at Target. If not, they say "bye-bye Sunbeam (I took a business seminar from a former Macy buyers). What distinguishes the products on Etsy from the ones on Amazon or eBay. Nada now.

[beadmask]

Dara, I'll have to dig around for the link. I *thought* that I had the presence of mind to bookmark it, but now I can't find it. Sadly, I may have been too busy freaking out. It was absolutely surreal -- a large (active!) forum, and the majority of the threads focused on different facets of selling on Etsy. Not a bad thing, in and of itself; but it was disturbing to find my products linked as examples of what to make. Also, these discussions were clearly coaching people on how to make their shops *appear* to be run by small independent artists. There did not seem to be any focus on the skill or craftsmanship that is central to handmade work; it was all about demographics and marketing.

I'm sure all of that sounds like some kooky conspiracy theory, but I'm really not making it up. Even asked my husband (who tends to look at things from a more detached POV) to read it over, and he came away with the same impression. Will try to find some time in the week ahead to wade through GA; with the right filters, I *should* be able to find it again. If I do, I'll share the link.

As to the blog post that you linked, it seems quite apt -- particularly the segment about "weeding the garden". On the plus side, before their abrupt change in direction, Etsy proved that there IS a market for true handmade. Hopefully, Zibbet or Indie Made (or whoever) will take over where they left off.

[DaraGallery]

Correction: Just had my first Zibbet sale. <Does happy dance around workstation>

And look. Ebay is going high end: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57617314-93/ebay-said-to-open-online-mall-to-lure-fancy-brands/

It doesn't sound kooky at all, Andrea. It sounds like lots of articles about lots of Etsians that have been copied by everyone from Commerce City to Urban Outfitters. Why do you think they now have an Alibaba guy working out of the Etsy offices? Bec both companies want to go public one day and can't until they clean up their image as ignoring copyright infringement.