Some thoughts on non-compliance

[Former_Member]

I read the forums about CPSIA very often and am starting to see an Idea pop up, and that's to either ignore the upcoming law, or willfully violate it. I just wanted to give you some information about doing this.
First the penalty for this are huge, and your insurance, or corporate veil from an LLC won't protect you, the fine will be personal again you, and if the CPSIA is anything like the IRS they will want to get that money, either confiscating personal and business property, or placing liens against you.
Second, most people think they wont' be going after “the little guy” I think the first people they will want to go after is the little guy. See, politicians aren't really in the business of protecting consumers, they are in the business of getting reelected by making consumers think they are protecting them. Right now, the economy terrible, and it's politician faults, so they will want to be able to say “Sure the economy sucks, and it might be my fault, But I recently cracked down on 1000 toy companies poisoning your children, vote for me!” They won't mention those 1000 companies were little old ladies making baby hats. And if they go after the big guys, they will have to go after the big guy's lawyers, which we simply can't afford as small businesses.
Thirdly, and most importantly, any sort of lying about compliance, forging certifications, or otherwise dodging the truth is consumer fraud, and really bad news.
-Chris

[Former_Member]

Sorry, but I disagree wholeheartedly. The CPSC does not have the people to police big business let alone small business. No one is going to come after granny selling knitted blankets. Also, have you not been reading the threads about the fact that we are starting to get through, that we are starting to be heard? No one is advocating dodging the truth, because the truth is what people make on etsy stands a way better chance to be lead free than big business toy manufacturers. There is enough fear out there, let's put things in perspective. It isn't over yet.

[Former_Member]

I know that the Maine Craftsmen Guild had CPSIA featured in it's newsletter along with links to more info and ways to contact Congressmen and women. What can I say I'm registered to vote and I signed one petition letter to our people in Congressso far. No one seems to have mentioned that the local Chambers of Commerce are on our side. I've only been on etsy since the 15th cause of our big move to a new home in another state. But I'm learning about this as fast as I can, I'm getting better at explaining it to people who had not heard of it. And I'm trying to figure out what is appropriate for my peticular stash of recyled materials. I want to test all my materials myself, whether or not the materials are required to be tested by the law. It's my own geeky curiosity and I want to know that my vintage portion of my inventory , my upolstery portion is safe for me to work with and pass along to the consumer.

[LaurieRyan]

That is why they wrote this stupid new law to begin with they don't even enforce the laws they already have on the books about these issues which is why china got away with importing all those contaminated products in the first place. Which BTW is why we now have to fight this stupid new law

[Former_Member]

Considering the lack of implementation guidelines on this CPSIA issue, I'm not sure that noncompliance is really the label we should be using. For now, "reasonable testing" is left up to us to define...

[TheFairiesNest]

I believe that the law says there are huge fines if you are found to have lead in your toys...what if they check and you have none?

[Former_Member]

That's a good question, Fairiesnest. Cuz I'd tell them to go ahead--check my merchandise.

[Former_Member]

iluvlucy - don't be so sure.. someone posted this link yesterday, and believe me I was as shocked as anyone... they will go after grandma and her blankets..it wouldn't be the first time
http://www.rescuemarketing.com/blog/2009/01/18/have-any-of-you-ever-endured-an-inspection-by-the-cps...

[Former_Member]

I could be mistaken, but I thought you could face fines and/or jail time for not complying with the CPSIA, which would entails not just meeting the lead levels, but also having the GCC (general conformity certificate) for proof.

[Former_Member]

Cleverkitty, If getting a cert is beyond my means when I KNOW my products are safe for use by kids of all ages, I would challenge the need for it in court if I had to. My husband completely supports me in that and wants to be involved in having something to say about it.

[HandworkNaturals]

Does it make sense that the suppliers/manufacturers should be responsible for eliminating the lead and any other safety issues from their products?

[Former_Member]

I said it in another thread, and I'll say it here---

IF you are planning on selling "illegally" after Feb. 10th be very cautious about how you keep saying that online all over the web---'cause public threads on forums can be used against you if someone decides to sue...

[Former_Member]

bmerry, that's your choice. I was simply responding to fairiesnest's question, and stating what I understand the law to be.

Handwork, yes, it would absolutely make sense for the manufacturers of the supplies we use to be responsible for eliminating lead. Unfortunately that is not how the law is currently worded. As of right now, the end product has to be tested, not the supplies used to make the product.

[Former_Member]

Clever, that's what this forum is all about. ;-)

[Former_Member]

You make your own GCC's based upon reasonable testing (whatever that is) after Feb. 10 until August. Now, if you sell wholesale, your buyers may not accept that, as they may want 3rd party testing. However, reasonable testing is enough for most of us. Reasonable testing is left up to us to define. I don't plan on being illegal.

[TheArtfulMommy]

Until this is sorted out I'm not even starting any more children's items. I never listed them and for now will just focus on other projects/ideas. The letter from the Committee on Energy and Commerce puts me at ease a little but I don't want to risk anything since my main items are not for kids. I feel awful for those shops that ARE though. I hope that they stick around...even if only to see what happens on 2/10. I don't want to risk anything. I know I'm not a 'big guy' but what if somehow I DID get caught without the proper documents and such.

[Former_Member]

iluvlucy8 said:
Sorry, but I disagree wholeheartedly. The CPSC does not have the people to police big business let alone small business. No one is going to come after granny selling knitted blankets. Also, have you not been reading the threads about the fact that we are starting to get through, that we are starting to be heard? No one is advocating dodging the truth, because the truth is what people make on etsy stands a way better chance to be lead free than big business toy manufacturers. There is enough fear out there, let's put things in perspective. It isn't over yet.
__________

well if a government agency wants to get good numbers, like they want to close a lot of business or so on, are they going to go after the biggest offenders, for the smallest one? it's more cost effective to harass us.
-Chris

[Former_Member]

..marking

[Former_Member]

In this economy, if the government wants to close businesses, that makes my head hurt.

[Former_Member]

But honestly, how are they going to recoup their spending on prosecuting the little guys??? There is NO way that a judge would award a $100K penalty to the government because I sold a perfectly safe cotton dress that happened to not have a certificate. Doesn't it make more sense to go after a non compliant major corporation with the funds to actually PAY a fine?

[Former_Member]

But lillipop the big guys *are* going to be compliant. They can afford the testing. And parents are going to see all of that listed on packaging, it's already being posted in stores and on new children's catalogs in the mail. You think they aren't going to start asking and examining what they are buying more closely? Look at how "green", "all natural", and "organic" companies have taken off.

Also, this law has given them an enormous budget to make sure companies are compliant now. The money increases over the next 6 years, more employees, the works. They are going to have the money and the people.

[Former_Member]

My business law teacher always says that if a government is really serious about something, they will make a government agency to enforce the law, That is exactly what they have done in this case. So I'm pretty sure they mean business.
-Chris

[Former_Member]

I wanted to include quilts made in the traditional way for young people in my inventory. The way the new law is written right now that would be illegal. Upcycling fabric for kids quilts is part of our heritage.

[Former_Member]

bmerry1 said:
I wanted to include quilts made in the traditional way for young people in my inventory. The way the new law is written right now that would be illegal. Upcycling fabric for kids quilts is part of our heritage.
__________

this whole thing is ridicules, I certainly understand and agree with the intention of the law, it's just that i couldn't think of a worse implementation of it.

[Former_Member]

ZACTLY, Shade, I'm over most of my initial shock and grief and moving into a working relationship with the problem and feeling out what can be done and what makes sense to do.