So what happens if you break the rules?

[Former_Member]

I'm just wondering? Is there an Etsy police for this? A task force to come after you? How serious is this offense?

[AllegroArts]

which rules?

if you break the forum rules by callinng out or being nasty to people, you can get muted or blocked from the forums.

[Former_Member]

They will probably execute you... wait nevermind. Wrong web page.

[Former_Member]

Do you mean CPSIA rules, like as in like the fire department will come or men in little white coat to pick up your not so sellable items anymore due to the new rules, can't haves etc.

Or etsy rules.
Play nice with others is what I say, no yelling, no being rude etc. This happened to me once, someone wasn't playing nice. Etsy care about this, they want to know. LOL

HUGS Embersidhe
ps: always be nice to others, you never know what kind of day someone is having, you could make or break it!!

[Former_Member]

I meant the general rules about CPSIA-- what happens if you keep selling without compiying? Is Etsy liable and will they find you and remove your product (doesn't that sound ominous!) or is there a way you will somehow get "caught"? I always play nice in the sandbox-- but I just find this whole thing so ridiculous... is it something that will end up not being as big a deal as we fear it will?

[Former_Member]

I suspect nothing would happen. I think the whole thing is a crock.

[Former_Member]

No, Etsy is not liable. They state in their TOU that you must comply with all local, state, and federal laws. If the CSPC or the attorney general of your state decides to prosecute you for not complying it could mean a huge fine (in the hundreds of thousands of dollars range).

[Former_Member]

CPSIA has included your state attorney general and the Federal CPSC in the enforcement of the law. If you willingly break the law you are subject to major fines and imprisonment. If you unknowingly break the law you would be subject to major fines. For example Mattel was recently fined $250,000 for one infringement of CPSIA.

Now, since you have posted the question here that could be brought into evidence should you be caught that you knew about CPSIA and therefore knowingly broke the law.

Will every seller of non-complaint merchandise be found and caught, probably not - However (Big However) CPSIA also included a Phone Tip Line to report non-compliance that includes a reward for anyone turning a business or person in - so it is likely that someone will be caught. There are a lot of nasty folks out there including organizations that support CPSIA that will be out looking for offenders.

[AmyWallisJewellery]

Probably best just to not break the rules.

[Former_Member]

The CPSIA has a hotline (I kid you not) where people can report on sellers who are breaking the law, and they will investigate them, fine them, etc.

There are several people on the forums who have already said they will report sellers who knowingly break the CPSIA laws.

So all of those people who say "this law sucks, I'm gonna keep selling no matter what---who's with me?!?!?!?!?!?!" should be careful of what they say on a public forum.

[Candejo]

pastperfect says:

However (Big However) CPSIA also included a Phone Tip Line to report non-compliance that includes a reward for anyone turning a business or person in - so it is likely that someone will be caught. There are a lot of nasty folks out there including organizations that support CPSIA that will be out looking for offenders.

***********

And in this economic climate I would venture a guess that you'd be surprised at how the enticement of the "reward" offer will do for getting people to report. It might not seem like a big deal - ridiculous and a crock - until you find yourself hit with a fine and jail time.

[bobbinalong]

Isn't it odd that people concerned with children's health (lead, etc.) are not as concerned about finding their way around a law. Hehe.

I wouldn't do well in jail. Goodness knows, if they fined me, it would be all over. So in August, I will just have to pull my little booties, my happy tooth fairy pillows, etc. I am not going to have a sale but just ride off into the sunset on Mother Goose's back!

[Former_Member]

It is my understanding that this "hotline" is more for whistleblowers inside large companies who would otherwise not know who to contact with the information that they have about non-compliance and who need the protection of anonymity for fear of losing their jobs.

I beleive the intention was not that this was set this up so that people could just tattle on each other but rather that large companies would be held accountable by their employees who knew something was wrong. Of course, I suppose anyone could use it, but I think it is important to recognize the intentions behind that.

[Former_Member]

Good morning, BuggaLove! I believe you are correct about the intention, but I do remember reading somewhere recently (overlawyered or Learning Resources' blog, perhaps...?) that this hotline/database is also to be used by *concerned* parents or, in a worst case scenario, a disgruntled or jealous competitor. I do my utmost to see the best in people and I try not to overreact (failing miserably many days), so I'm hoping that this is really just "worst case scenario" stuff and not what the hotline WILL be used for.

Now... if I could only find the reference so I could back up what I said better... I do recall that it was linked to this "database" Ms. Tenenbaum spoke of in her confirmation testimony, but I am not 100% sure on the particulars of how it was to work.

I would hope, however, that the CPSC under Ms. Tenenbaum's tenure would recognize the valid concerns about system abuses.

Have a great day, all!

[LaurieRyan]

a problem with the hot line is people will be reporting people weither they are compling or not! what a mess that is going to be sorting out the whole crap

[Former_Member]

Don't forget, if you don't have the legalaities squared away in regards to your companies liabilities, you could loose your house in a lawsuite.

The liability aspect of this new CPSIA is the scary part for me. My husband has a petty competitor that has sued him once, and the school I embroider for has a lot of anti-religious people wanting it to close. My violations of any law would be a boon for their cause.

[Former_Member]

littlethingsboutique says:
Good morning, BuggaLove! I believe you are correct about the intention, but I do remember reading somewhere recently (overlawyered or Learning Resources' blog, perhaps...?) that this hotline/database is also to be used by *concerned* parents or, in a worst case scenario, a disgruntled or jealous competitor. I do my utmost to see the best in people and I try not to overreact (failing miserably many days), so I'm hoping that this is really just "worst case scenario" stuff and not what the hotline WILL be used for.

Now... if I could only find the reference so I could back up what I said better... I do recall that it was linked to this "database" Ms. Tenenbaum spoke of in her confirmation testimony, but I am not 100% sure on the particulars of how it was to work.

I would hope, however, that the CPSC under Ms. Tenenbaum's tenure would recognize the valid concerns about system abuses.

Have a great day, all!
*****************************************************

That's true, anyone could use it. But that's no different than the reporting process currently in place. Parents call CPSC all the time to report defective items, it's often what triggers a recall. So this is not a new thing.

I also see a distinct difference in a report from some random person that claims non-compliance without proof (which would be very obvious to the CPSC) vs. an employee calling in with inside knowledge about a company who is intentionally violating CPSIA or a parent who has reports of an item which caused their child harm (they'd be able to provide doctor's notes, lead test results, etc). You know what I mean?

The CPSC won't necessarily press charges against every person that is "reported".

[Former_Member]

You're right, BuggaLove. I was just pointing out that there will be opportunity for abuse, just as there is currently; streamlining the database may just make it easier. And the Commission won't be able to press charges against every person because odds are that many reports will not warrant it.

You do make a good point about *random* claims made as opposed to inside whistleblowers. Assuredly, those within industry who have direct knowledge are different (and, I believe, have a duty to their consumers) to bring these to light. I think that -- however slim the chances -- that zealous individuals from public interest groups (or others) could abuse this. But just because they *can* doesn't mean they *would*. Most likely, it won't be at a higher rate than it currently is (which is most likely small).

[MamaFamilias]

The CPsC is much less scary that the State's Attorney. A random hotline tip will probably not lead to fines or arrest. However, parental watchdog groups know that they can go to the State's Attorney and report you and that could mean trouble.

I know IL plans on strict enforcement, so I'm going to do my best to comply. IL is really after the big players, but I do not want to be made an example to scare other businesses.

I think it was HazaelMay that said the CPSC has only 9 agents, and I don't expect to see one of them at my door. Its the local vigilantes that have me doing my best to step in line.

[TheBlingyBobbin]

I'm sure there is someone who has had a pen and paper writing down all the crafters on here who have said they won't be in compliance, and will have their finger on the redial button calling these folks in. For me, I'm going to be in compliance - or pull my items. Not because I'm scared of someone calling and reporting me, but because I follow the law - no matter how stupid I think it is. It's everyone's responsibility to make their own choices...I'm not going to tell anyone what to do, rather I’ll just point them to the CPSA’s website and links and let them make their own choices.

My brother was tragically killed in a car accident. He overcorrected while driving around a curve and ran off the road and hit a tree. He was not wearing his seatbelt and was thrown, then dragged down the highway by another vehicle. From that moment forward, I wear my seatbelt. There will be lots of stories like these come next year – “a friend of a friend was fined…” – we may learn hard lessons if we chose not obey the law. I will choose to obey, no matter how stupid I think it is. Chris thought it was stupid to wear his seatbelt.

Essentially, the law is there to protect us AND to protect children.

Sorry for the graphic reference to my brother. It was a stupid oversite on his part. I miss him.

[Former_Member]

BuggaLove says:
It is my understanding that this "hotline" is more for whistleblowers inside large companies who would otherwise not know who to contact with the information that they have about non-compliance and who need the protection of anonymity for fear of losing their jobs.
----------------------------------------
Right, because it was the "large companies" who created this problem to begin with.
I feel for you people, I really do.
*sigh*

[Former_Member]

I have way too much to lose on the slim chance I am reported - it's just not worth it. I was hoping to be able to label and be compliant but the more I research, the more I'm learning this is not feasible for me. I'm likely to close shop in August.

[Former_Member]

I was looking for info on testing for phtalate testing, even they admit the testing is iffy and not enough testers exist, so WTF, why have a law saying you maust test for something when they don't have an accurate method of testing. Besides the item must be destroyed to test it?

I know the fines have been greatly increased but how do they enforce something so dumb?

[Former_Member]

A few of you have mentioned closing in August. I thought testing did not have to be done on individual items until Feb. Am I mistaken? I thought labelling was in August on anything made after Aug?

Who enforces this law for someone making things in Canada?

[Former_Member]

Quilt - for some, the labeling requirements are too difficult to comply with, hence people needing to close in August. Testing and labeling are 2 separate issues, both are very hard to comply with.