Non-Compliance and being sued

[Former_Member]

Hey I am all for non compliance but then in the back of my head I have this nagging feeling that even if the government does not go after us for now what abt "customers" out there looking for those who are not complying and find us and decide to sue us. We would not have a leg to stand on I do not think. Am I the only one who has thought abt this?? Maybe just over analyzing the situation.

[Former_Member]

Individual states also now have the right to prosecute as they see fit under the new law.

[Former_Member]

I am really surprised at the lack of response to this question....so many of us wanting to stay open and I am one but can I really be the only one worried abt this??

[BridalCombsBoutique]

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1231473900/bridal-comb-vintage-comb-lace-comb

[Former_Member]

Correct, you would not have a leg to stand on.

The person suing may not win for other reasons...but the business owner isn't going to get off scott-free either once it comes out in court that they were operating illegally.

[Former_Member]

I said it in another thread, and I'll say it here---

IF you are planning on selling "illegally" after Feb. 10th be very cautious about how you keep saying that online all over the web---'cause public threads on forums can be used against you if someone decides to sue...

[Former_Member]

I said I was all for it but I did not say that I was going to do it. I still think there i smaybe that one person out there waiting in the shadows. My hubby thinks I am over reacting but I am not so sure.Hopefully things will be changed in time and we can continue to sell. I think actually we can continue to sell what we already had in stock till August....I think. I need to go back and read what the August thing is.

[Former_Member]

I'm not a lawyer,I've read buissness law books and in theory the laws must uphold what a reasonable person would do in any given situation. I will try to get my things tested, if I can't afford it, I will hang onto my stuff until the cost of testing comes down, which I think it will. Because of the vagueness of the new law there are going to be some interesting cases in court to follow.

[Former_Member]

As long as a lawyer could prove that a person willfully disregarded the law knowing it's existence, that person is at fault. Posting in a forums about "hey this law sucks!! I'm going to keep selling and not test anything and I don't care if they throw me in jail!!" or something like that proves that the person knew the law existed but willfully chose not to follow it.

[MomNMiaDesigns]

KreatedbyKarina says:
I said it in another thread, and I'll say it here---

IF you are planning on selling "illegally" after Feb. 10th be very cautious about how you keep saying that online all over the web---'cause public threads on forums can be used against you if someone decides to sue...
------------------------------------------

On that same note, I'd like to add - if you're planning on selling anyway and therefore DON'T post in forums for the reasons Karina stated, you are just as guilty of breaking the law in the eyes of any court. Our legal system doesn't let you get off on claims that you "just didn't know"....

[Former_Member]

It should be pretty interesting to see how the law gets amended so that the children's sections of libraries don't get shut down for testing (for example). I would not want to have a country full of head librarians with master degrees on my case. This is a very interesting can-O-worms.

[Former_Member]

I think there are so many things that could go wrong. Not only with people suing you but what about the post office??? There are special requirements for sending hazardous materials if you are even allowed to send them at all, not to mention they would be illegal if not tested, right? Don't they ask you are you mailing anything ....?? And they ramble off the big list of things.

Here is the link for what I found on the USPS site
http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm#wp1064962

I would think these would fall under 10.16 for Toxic Substances BUT I am not a lawyer and I do not work for the post office. Everyone will and needs to make their own decisions but there are so many factors that go into this not just the CPSC coming after you.

[littledebrarae]

I only found out about the consumer product safety improvement act from 2/10/2008 three days ago. To the best of my knowledge bmerry1, the law will NOT be 'amended'.

I am appalled at this, as is everyone here.

Even I someone who makes only art work, will eventually be affected by this law. I know fashion designers who can't even get their work 'out there'. I know gallery owners who want to show my baskets, but now CAN'T because the stuff they already have in their galleries aren't showing (so no space).

That's why I came here.

There is one thing we can do. Find the locations of every congressmen and senator (rep, dem, ind ... whatever)..........write them, PHONE them, PICKET THEM and let them know this law is WRONG!

Write to the newspapers and tell them, and SHOW THEM how your business will be affected!

All my prayers are with everyone (myself included) affected by this horrific 'act' of OVER REGULATION!

[Former_Member]

Mimowha, that is a great point that had not occurred to me.

[Former_Member]

Mimowha, that is a great point that had not occurred to me.

[Former_Member]

What would a customer sue you for if they haven't been harmed? I don't know the ins and outs of suing.

[ByNanasHands]

It was pointed out to me by my DH that no matter HOW upset I am about this law, or how unfair it seems it is still a law. There are those out there (and lately I've seen many right here on Etsy) that are going to go after you just to make a point. So, even though I was one of many that stood up with their fist in the air and said "I'm not closing down, I'm going to continue to sell"....I WILL be closing down......so as things sell out of my shop I am not relisting them....what you see there is what you get...I'm done...until the insanity of this law is seen and dealt with appropriately I am finished....

Ozarknana

[acorngirl]

Ozarknana , I get where you are coming from. I'm dropping some items from my shop and rebranding others. I'm hopeful that ultimately sanity will prevail, but I don't want to commit criminal acts in the interim.

Your toys are charming. I have added you to my fave sellers. I hope you stay on etsy (even with an empty shop for a while) so that I can find you in future.

[Former_Member]

SugarAndSpice says:
What would a customer sue you for if they haven't been harmed? I don't know the ins and outs of suing.
_______________

There are a lot of people there who will sue just for the sake of causing trouble for sellers...whether they were harmed or not is only part of the case if the seller is operating illegally.

[Former_Member]

Put it this way...buyer A can claim "oh I was harmed" and want to take it to court solely for the purpose of bringing to light that the seller was selling illegally.

They don't care if they win in that case, they just want to see the seller go down and pay a huge fine and possibly have jail time as well.

[ByNanasHands]

Acorngirl, thank you for the "heart", I, as many others, have worked SO HARD to get to a point where we were finally getting somewhere....and then this. I think what really hurts the most is some other Etsy sellers and their attitudes about this whole thing. I hope that something like this never happens to them...it would be only then that they would understand what we are going through.

My business helps us as we are on Social Security....now I'll need to try and find a job to pick up where this left off....along with millions of others....

Ozark

[Former_Member]

For me, it is just NOT worth the risk. The money I might make is definitely less important than the fear of being found out & prosecuted - there are some pretty paranoid & "sue-happy" parents/people out there who might take advantage of a seller who breaks the law & sells on Feb 10th. I've also heard rumors of bitter etsy sellers who will "call out" violators on Feb 10th. I'm shutting down Feb 9th until things change - & I'm confident they will once the effects are felt around the country.

[Former_Member]

The threat of being sued by a customer is yet another reason why I'm going to be closing up shop come Feb. 9 if the law doesn't change. What a sad time we live in. :(

[Former_Member]

ozarknana, your turtle is SO FUN!! I hearted you a few days ago & might just be buying that one!

[Former_Member]

I will be removing all of my children items from my store which is about everything and not taking the risk. If the law isn't changed I will have to close and open under a new name or I'm sure I would be being checked by someone who has nothing better to do than cause trouble for someone else.