Just an example of how lead can be anywhere...

[#1]

I've been thinking a lot about this law lately -- not just its implications on small businesses like myself, but also the public policy that should be in place.

I, personally, feel the law has valid intent -- whether or not we grew up with lead and came out fine, the fact is that a lot of other children did not. I've heard some argue that a little lead isn't that bad and that they were fine... I disagree. There are quite a few smokers who don't develop lung cancer, but you won't hear people out there saying that a few cigarettes are ok or a little second-hand smoke is alright.

You want to hear a sad story?

A neighbor moved in a few months ago from a subdivision nearby. I saw a boy playing in her yard, so I went over to introduce myself and my son. She invited me inside and our two toddlers played while we had some coffee and introduced ourselves. Her son is around six months younger than my son and she explained that the reason they moved was that her son was diagnosed with lead poisoning.

Lead poisoning? From what?

From the tiles in her home. Apparently, the very act of her toddler dragging his blankie across the floor or lying on the floor, then putting his blankie/thumb in his mouth was enough to cause the lead poisoning (through ingestion). Only a very small amount of lead is necessary for irreversible problems to present themselves -- neurological defects, cardiovascular problems, etc.

Now, by saying that I'm not implying I support the law in its current form... It's to say that we really should take responsibility for this and buy only from suppliers who test, especially the imports from other countries. I was just reading how synthetic dyes from other countries have lead in them because they are cheaper to produce -- these dyes are used in the production of fabric. Especially in light of this, I feel it's the suppliers *responsibility* to test.

Also, if you have children... ask questions. Going to install tile? Ask the producer if their tile has lead in it -- do not assume that lead isn't in the tile, as it could have been imported from another country. Tile companies don't have to tell you if their item has lead in it until you ask them.

The last thing I'd ever want is to see a child damaged for the rest of their life because of lead poisoning, something that is ridiculously preventable.

Jen

Who is sad because of this and her aunt passing away.

[LaurieRyan]

I agree whimbrella

[Former_Member]

Whimbrella -- Thank you for the clarification! I went back and reread my source and I realized it was talking about other chemicals in the synthetic dyes, even though it was in an article about lead. I misinterpreted the article.

I do, however, wonder how much of what we have is "safe." Our fillings have mercury, some vaccines still have mercury in them, our food contains pesticides/hormones/antibiotics, our homes might have lead, our soil (in some areas) is contaminated, our baby bottles have BPA in them... what, exactly, is safe?

The worst part is that companies refuse to provide the information -- they don't want you to make an informed choice. They want you to purchase stuff blindly, and a number of lobbying groups (the ADA for one) and government organizations (the FDA) would like you to go along and do that.

I am still a libertarian who doesn't like governmental intrusion, but the longer I live the more I start to believe that people cannot be trusted on their own. Companies will NOT do what's good for their customers/country/environment unless there is a guillotine hanging over their head. Companies will do the bare minimum in obeying the law and no more because they care more about the bottom line than anything else. There is still lead glaze in ceramic tile because it's cheap and they can -- why are the existing US laws not stopping that? Because the government is in the pocket of people with money.

Wow, I'm morose today.

I think I'll go have a beer,

Jen

[birdylegs]

vloutextiles: I know they have found lead in silkscreened fabrics, where the screenprint sits on the surface of the fabric, and on fabrics with painted surfaces. I don't think there has every been an issue with fabrics where the dye is absorbed into the fabric. Am I making sense? I think it can only be an issue if you can feel the texture of the print. With regular dying most of the dye is rinsed out.

[MerrillLand]

How sad. We have to remember that lead is a naturally occurring element and it occurs naturally in soil. Some areas can have higer than normal background levels due to certain geological conditions.

I am sorry about your aunt. :-(

[Former_Member]

Birdylegs, I think you are right. Textile-wise, all I have seen of concern is when there is something printed, stamped, or painted on TOP of the fabric. With the exception of vinyl, I have not yet seen any recalls or testing results indicating that there has been unlawful lead levels within the substrate of the fabric itself.

These stories of lead and other toxins are incredibly sad. What they illustrate is that if the goal is truly to protect children, then EVERYBODY should be policing themselves for lead. A child can just as easily ingest lead by pulling a lead-laden button off of their mother's shirt as they can by pulling off one of their own. Children do not discriminate about what they put in their mouths.

[birdylegs]

Ah, substrate! Thanks littlepinkposies. I was at a loss to explain what I meant.

[Former_Member]

Whimbrella says:
I strongly resent the implications being foisted on the American public that EVERYTHING is dangerous. Everything is NOT dangerous.

The mounting hysteria this causes just feeds the fire for more government intrusion in our lives. Don't help it.
**********
Whimbrella, I'm going back to your previous post about the chemist from the Hosiery Institute. I watched the testimony last week and was particularly interested in her, specifically, that test she did. I'm not a scientist at all and not at all well versed in methodologies of experiments, but it seems to me that that in and of itself proves textiles are generally safe (yes, even printed and dyed).

littlepink -- you're right. My kids put everything in their mouths EXCEPT their own stuff. Fortunately for us, that was a short-lived period for each of them. While I agree that we should all police ourselves and our own families, there are those interests who seem to feel they should be controlling our lives for us, protecting us from ourselves. It's easier to do it "for the children," however, than trying to control us adults and the items we consume.

[Former_Member]

You all are SO right. Lead is everywhere. I live in a middle-upper class residential neighborhood about 30 miles south of Seattle. For about 80 years there was a copper smelter about 10 blocks away. The city imploded it in 1993. 16 years later, there is STILL a highly aggressive health department campaign for indoor shoe removal and HEPA system vacuum cleaners. We have had the top 12 inches of topsoil removed from our yards 3 times in the last 16 years. The plume of lead and arsenic from this Superfund site extends in a 20 mile radius. You just can't get away from it! As an informed parent, I take every precaution to ensure that my children are safe, both in my house with products that we purchase, but outside (i.e raised bed gardening w/organic topsoil, un-treated mulched playarea, etc.). We have to be proactive while protecting ourselves, our children and this planet. But regulating domestically produced items that have NO risk for lead is still the dumbest logic I've ever heard.

[eclipse]

In California they already have to have warnings on anything that contains lead (and some other hazardous metals).
I was just at the dentist for a cleaning yesterday and there is a big sign saying amalgam fillings contain mercury.
When I go to a kitchen store and look at dishes, some are labeled that there is lead in the glaze.
I haven't shopped for ceramic tile lately (hopefully soon, that bathroom floor needs redoing!) but I expect to see warning signs at the tile store too if there is lead in the glaze.

[FayeMaloneDesigns]

If you buy tile from a reputable tile dealer selling reputable brand name tile from established tile manufacturers and used skilled tile installers them you should have no problem with ceramic tile. You WILL have a problem if you buy your tile at the discount store/big box retailer from their stacks of cheap tile imported from China and other countries that you know has problems with following laws. The majority of general contractors go for the cheap container load of tile that they can get for pennies on the dollar. They hire the cheapest labor they can find, and use the cheapest and quite often improper methods of installation. They may also use muriatic acid to clean the grout residue.

My husband and I are custom ceramic tile installers. We will not install the cheap HD or Lowe's stuff, nor will we cut corners in the installations. I design and install hand cut floor tile mosaics. I hand cut and sand the edges of each piece. Some floor rugs have over 1000 pieces. I have yet to show any elevation in lead levels in my blood, nor does my husband.

The only way that I can see that walking across a tile floor can release lead from a glaze is if an acid wash was used to clean it and it was left on too long breaking the surface of the glaze, or the cleaning product the homeowner uses to clean is destroying the surface.

We have always recommended that a customer that has an old lead pan shower that is being replaced have all the tile, substrate, floor and wall tile in the bathroom also be replaced because of possible leaching problems of lead into the surrounding areas and possible contaminated dust from the destruction of the shower.

But I do think it is leading to hysteria to imply that tile floors will give you lead poisoning. You will probably find more problems in your vinyl and carpeting.

[Former_Member]

(marking)
Desperately trying to figure out what this means for my business. I sell vintage fabrics and have a whole section of juvenile print fabrics. (sigh) :(

I realize that most of these fabrics are purchased by collectors and I'm not the manufacturer, but in the case of vintage, would I be responsible to test?
Or perhaps just state clearly that these vintage items haven't been tested and should not be used for children's items?

[LaPellaPottery]

FayeMalone, thank you for posting that. Leaded glazes are safe when correctly fired. A tile would have to be grossly underfired to release lead by dragging a blankie across it.

We do not use leaded glazes in our pottery because of the hazard *before* firing, not after.

For lead to be released from a properly fired piece, an acid would have to sit on the piece in order to leach the metal from the glaze.

Our son suffered from lead poisoning when he was an infant. Our state has a lead abatement program and came out and tested everything, even the soil around our house and the produce we grew. Of course, the assumption was that we were the lead source because we are potters. Even my breast milk was tested.

The source was our carpet and miniblinds. The mini blinds were shedding a lead dust and our carpet was harboring the dust form the mini blinds and possibly renovations done before we moved in.

Our son suffered no lasting effects and with a chelating diet, his lead levels dropped rapidly.

[Former_Member]

I found my dentist on a Mercury-Free Dentist website. I had to sign a statement yesterday saying that I know my dentist doesn't use mercury amalgams and the alternative materials may be more expensive and not covered by insurance. (Luckily, my dental plan covers non-amalgam fillings.) It's amazing people have to pay more to make more healthy choices.
There are many things that I wish were just a given. I wish that human made trans fats and HCFS did not exist. I wish that heavy metals did not make it cheaper to make so many products.

One source of lead that hasn't gone away...roads. ALl those years of leaded gas make for still polluted roadways. It's one of several reasons we don't wear shoes in our house.
We plan to tile our kitchen. Now that I've ruled out the use of asbestos in our vinyl, we know we can have it removed by us versus hiring a special company.
I think I am not living a life of fear per se BUT I am living a skeptical and analytical life. I may take risks where someone else won't and vice versa.

It's all so frustrating!
I want to list my child items in my store but I feel frozen.

rambling...

[Former_Member]

i can defenetly see both sides of the fence being a mom who makes products for kids . my doughter had high lead levels when she was only 11 months from the same thing , but crawling around on the floor , we ended up moving as well and now things are better but if we didnt have her tested early on we would have never known and things could have potentially been very bad .so i think the law will be great ... WITH a lot of fine tunning.

[Former_Member]

This morning I found an ENTIRE SECTION in my local newspaper devoted to nothing but recalled items. I was in shock.

I read over the list and description. 99% of them were manufactured in China and imported by American companies.

All were lead content offenders.

[eclipse]

FayeMalone and Lapella, thanks for posting! I thought lead glaze on ceramics was safe because it becomes glasslike after firing, so the lead is bound up in the crystalline web or something. Like in lead crystal wine glasses. (I am sure I am describing it wrong but you get the gist)

[LaPellaPottery]

Eclipse, it is.

Remember with leaded crystal, we shouldn't drink lemonade from them. There are no such recommendations with pottery using lead glazes, but I would still avoid acidic drinks.

[Former_Member]

I found this website on flooring materials. Apparently there is more to worry about than just lead in tiling/marble. Who knew.

"Health concerns:
Some natural stone flooring like granite or marble and glazed ceramic tiles, which are commonly used in China, can emit radon gas, especially tiles with intensive red or green coloured glaze. This toxic substance is inhaled into the lungs, and has been associated with leukemia and lung cancer."

http://www.greenchoice.cn/index_eng.php?var1=content/resources/decorating/decorating_4.htm&

I think wikipedia has great information on lead effects historically, especially in relation to lead added to gas.

[Former_Member]

Even without CPSIA we went from around 7.6 percent of children having problematic levels of lead in their blood (1997) to around 1.2% of children in 2006.
http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/surv/stats.htm

I am not saying we dismiss those children, but the CPSIA doesn't even address the main sources of lead- through a horrible and tragic series of accidents one child died (he was at a friend's house, his mother did not know he swallowed the charm, the medical people did not recognize the charm as a foreign object in the first x-rays, it was only later, when he was too sick to survive that they discovered the charm)- so CPSIA is a hasty response to a heartbreaking situation that isn't representative.

I do think jewelry should be tested, and vinyl, and paints and a few other products known to be at risk for lead.

But most of this bill simply doesn't address any known problem, so it puts people out of business without saving children.

[Former_Member]

I don't agree with this law in it's present form either. That said, I do wonder why it's being deemed safe enough for my kids over 12 and myself to have these untested products in our homes and on our possesions. The OP mentioned flooring, my kids sit and play on the floor daily. My adult daughter does to as she prefers hard surfaces. I guess I'm saying that in this country every product sold should be proven safe, and by that I mean proven by the manufacturer of the materials, not the end user.

[Former_Member]

"I'm saying that in this country every product sold should be proven safe, and by that I mean proven by the manufacturer of the materials, not the end user"

Exactly.

People need to go to jail. No one's going to go to jail over these peanuts, the lead-laced imports from China - it's using more legislation to look like you are doing a regulatory job you are failing at miserably.

[eclipse]

MyManyMoodz says:
That said, I do wonder why it's being deemed safe enough for my kids over 12 and myself to have these untested products in our homes and on our possesions.
....

I think it's due to body weight and maybe the metabolism of children too- the smaller the child, the less it takes to reach a toxic level. Certainly lead can kill a full grown man too but it takes lot more of it.

[Former_Member]

yes but if I have lead on my blouse buttons and I rock my baby I'm exposing him. The only way to fully protect kids from it would be to force all manufacturers to produce a safe product no matter who they anticipate will use it. It absurd to allow them to sell this toxic crap in this country, then put the burden of proof of its safety on the person that buys it.

[Former_Member]

Dear Made By Moms- I'm so sorry to hear that you lost your Aunt.

Thanks for sharing the information about the tiles, it's important to know.

[Former_Member]

There are so many good points in this thread.

I just read recently where a lady has a problem even with the trace amounts of heavy metals used in dyes such as zinc, chromium, lead, copper, mercury, and nickel. Her liver will absolutely not tolerate any amount of these metals at all.

"Garment finishes for wrinkle-free, stain resistant, flame retardant, anti-fungal, anti-bacterial, anti-static, odor-resistant, permanent-press, non-shrink, softening agents, and the other easy care treatments that are applied to new clothing can be especially harmful for people with chemical sensitivities … which is basically all of us – it is just the degree of sensitivity that varies" quote from LotusOrganics.com.

This information here: http://www.masterstech-home.com/the_sewing_room/Articles/FabricDyeSafety.html states that it is difficult to rinse the toxins from hand dyed fabric, but that most of the toxicity occurrs in handling the dyes themselves.

I am not a big organics type of person, but the point is true. There are loads of chemicals, some even required by law, that people can be sensitive to. Not all of us and maybe not even most of us. I, for example, cannot use any form of blue dye in my hair and soap products without morphing into a grotesque mass of flakes and boils. One time I drank 2 teaspoons of blue cold medicine and was quite alarmed at what returned for a visit the next day. If I make a big noise about my blue dye allergies, I am sure that I could convince a government official that blue dye is a menace to society. I could find research to prove my point and have it removed from the market. I am sure of it, even though the risk of it affecting anyone else in such a manner or worse is miniscule. But I would be wrong to assume that the millions of people on earth are going to be grateful to me for saving them from the menace of blue dye. Most people do not have a problem with it, have grown up with it, raised their children with it and they are all fine and do would not understand how bad it really is...for at least a few people.

At the same time, the government knows very well that birth control pills cause blood clots (which nearly killed my dear friend) yet to this day, I can see birth control pills being advertised on television stating in fact that they do cause blood clots and that people can die from this, yet apparantly the government deems the potential benefits from these horrible drubs far outweigh the possibility of death, which is far more reasonable than having a problem from dyes in washed fabrics.

As the OP stated, and as the point has been reiterated over and over here, the poisons are everywhere. Dangers are everywhere. The reason one is outlawed and one is mandated is the purpose of all legislation...revenue. It has nothing to do with anyone being concerned about anyone else.

I am not in any way diminishing anyone's experience with ill effects from lead. But it cannot be legislated away because it does occur naturally, and that is why there are fines resulting from its use. Substances that can be eliminated are generally regulated so that the government can get its hand in it. If government makes a company stop using something that does not occur naturally, there is no money in it for them.