International sellers don't need to follow the CPSIA requeriments

[#1]

Trying to explain well with my best english...

I've talked with a friend working as an attorney in the government consumer department here in Spain. He has read all the CPSIA and knows about it, and that's what he told me:
Since I don't have any office or department sited in the US and I'm not a US citizen or resident, I'm not supposed to know about the CPSIA or follow its requeriments. I'm just an artisan/handcrafter selling my items in an international venue, not wholesale, so I'm not an "importer" to your country, the "importer" is the us costumer that kindly purchase one of my items who needs to follow that requirements...
He explain it to my very well with an example: it would be the same as if someone in... Senegal, was selling a handcrafted or vintage toy on ebay. They can't do nothing if a US customer buys it online... is only his own responsability.

What do you think about this? I'll be glad to hear your oppinions. I've just designed my new labels to follow the label requirements on August and I'm preparing to only use wooden or motherofpearl button, no more snaps, zippers, plastic buttons or anything metallic... but I definately won't test my items (as I don't need to). I'm thinking about only sell to costumers outside the US or sell to everybody, writing a note in my shop noticing that I'm not testing my products, but maybe this will be unfair to all of you, north-americans handcrafters and artisans who are selling here on Etsy too and need to test...

[LaurieRyan]

I guess I can see that also british but still I think governments every where have gone over board

[Former_Member]

yes...many would tell you that the EU is daft in many ways!! I kind of see it though with kids stuff..I want things my son plays with to be as safe as possible.

[Former_Member]

DebiDesigns says:
I call foul! I am not importing finished products from foreign countrys and reselling it to the public. I am buying items that is already suppose to be tested for lead content before it is imported into my country. If the said item is lead free before importing how does me sewing it together changes the chemical makeup to make it full of enough lead that it needs retesting? Buyer beware, as a American consumer why can't you buy from American crafters with the same concept?
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That is certainly your prerogative.

But note, that all items are currently NOT tested for lead before they are imported. If everything that was imported were already tested, this would be a very different law as it pertained to crafters.

[herflyinghorses]

allthenumbers says "Package could very well be stopped at customs and destroyed if no documentation is included. Not likely, but certainly possible."

Yes, this is true for anyone purchasing outside of their country. We are only required to include the documentation that OUR country requires unless we are wholesaling or making items to be resold. It is completely up to the buyer to decide if they want to take that risk.

[FayeMaloneDesigns]

But, consider that Mattel, etc, were supposed to be receiving products manufactured in China that met the lead in paint and total lead limits that were in effect at that time. And supposedly they were tested in China and did not exceed the required levels as per the Chinese manufacturers. Remember the majority of the testing labs are in the orient. The problems were discovered here when Mattel did their own testing, which I'm sure all big companies do and they contacted CPSC to report the excess lead. So they ordered and paid for product that claimed to meet the requiements, but obviously that was false. Now according to the CPSIA, we can not send the bad product back to the originating country unless they agree even if they lied on the paperwork. What does this tell you?

[Former_Member]

Faye - Tells me that the law sucks! Also, that is obviously faulty.

[Former_Member]

Wow I think this thread is funny so I'm marking it for later.

And I'm kind of sad that so many Etsians are upset about a person making handmade toys in Spain that someone in the US MIGHT buy, while most people in the US buy all their babies toys from Target and Wal-Mart which come directly from China. Hmm....

[Former_Member]

sucker...I don't understand what's funny. I think people are upset because our own government is making it practically impossible for the "little guys" to make and sell children's products. It will be easier for people overseas to sell to people in the US than it will be for our neighbors to sell to us. I have a problem with that.

[FayeMaloneDesigns]

sucker says:
Wow I think this thread is funny so I'm marking it for later.

And I'm kind of sad that so many Etsians are upset about a person making handmade toys in Spain that someone in the US MIGHT buy, while most people in the US buy all their babies toys from Target and Wal-Mart which come directly from China. Hmm....

I don't think that people are "upset" about toys made in Spain or France or other places. What we are upset about is the CPSIA that is poorly written, unread by those that voted for it, is so convoluted that even the CPSC says it is unworkable, and the CPSC told the Congresspeeps that it was wrong, wrong, wrong before it was passed but they weren't listened to.

We're also upset that American companies even the itty bitty ones are being put out of business because it is impossible to follow laws where the exact rules haven't even been written but we must follow them, what ever they might be, and may be totally different next month, or in 2 months, or in 6 months.

We're also upset that it appears that other countries can sell handmade to the USA, but we won't be able to sell handmade to the USA at a reasonable price and we live here. Nor will be able to send out of the country. We will be shut out of the competition by the price of testing, and the uncertainty of the labelling issue. We aren't upset with the sellers from other countries, but with our congress for their ineptness.

And, this will force more people to buy only those baby and children's items from Target and Walmart, because handmade will be gone, or totally unaffordable.

Are you testing your buttons, zippers, and paints now? And what are your plans for labelling? Share with us your success at a reasonable cost.

[DebiDesigns]

I am totaly confused then this should apply to crafters in the U.S. that is only selling 1 item to 1 buyer, why am I to test my products if I am not selling hundreds at a time wholesale to stores for reselling?
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BeneathTheRowanTree says:

A US buyer can buy toys from any place they like.

*IF* they intend to resell/buy wholesale, they (the US Buyer) will have to test the products to suit the US law. Therefore, anyone selling wholesale to a US buyer would be wise to conform to the CPSIA (ie the China toy maker) or they will lose US business.

The law clearly states that CERTIFICATION is the responsibility of the US buyer. Therefore all purchases WILL arrive TO the US buyer ~ who is then beholden to test and/or certify PRIOR to resale.

BUT BUT BUT :)
IF said US buyer has NO intention to resell, there it stops. No CPSIA compliance/ testing// certification etc. required. Little Timmy can play with his new toy.

[herflyinghorses]

The intent of this thread is to inform international sellers that they can continue business and sell to the U.S.

So many times I have seen international sellers ask "Does this apply to me? Do I have to test or do this?" They are always told "YES" which is NOT true. I pulled all of my children's items from my shop for over 3 months because I was confused, misguided and stressed out over this law. All for no reason because it doesn't apply to me. Just because we "can" sell to the U.S doesn't automatically make our items unsafe.

This thread should not be about how unfair the CPSIA is or how unfair that we can sell to the U.S. There are plenty of other threads for that.

[Former_Member]

While I totally understand the unreasonableness of the new guidelines, I thought it was funny that so many of this handmade nation were upset that someone in Spain might sell something to an individual without having to test their products.

It's already been stated here that someone from overseas can't sell products WHOLESALE unless they test them, so what is the problem with one handmade seller posting this forum about her approach the new guidelines in a fair way that complies were her country's regulations.

If you think the CPSIA is unfair, i understand but leave this handmade artesian alone, and don't tell her its not fair that she has an opportunity to sell and you might not. That is just mean spirited.

[FayeMaloneDesigns]

No one is attacking anyone, I think we are having a very thoughtful discussion. Yes we can be upset by the law, but we can discuss it, can't we? And while we can think it is unfair, we aren't attacking any one artisan. We aren't mad at any artisan in another country, we are mad at the lawmakers.

Who's being mean spirited?

And you didn't answer my questions from my previous post, since you seem to be so incensed at those of us in this handmade nation, what are you doing to comply with this law that is making it so easy for you to put on a happy face? We'd like your secrets. Share. Maybe you could ease all our worries.

[Former_Member]

Well this forum isn't about me. It was about melimelon.

I support this seller, and I think that individual complaints about the CPSIA should be taken to other forums.

I'm bowing out. I didn't mean to offend anyone by the amusement i got from this forum.

[DebiDesigns]

sucker in the very beginning OP did ask us what we thought about it and wanted our opinion.

After reading at the very top of this link it states anyone who puts 2 things together and sells it is a manufacturur and if you send that product into the United States you are a importer and you must meet the same requirements, this applys to everyone international also.'

http://www.cpsc.gov/ABOUT/Cpsia/smbus/cpsiasbguide.pdf
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melimelon says:
Trying to explain well with my best english...

I'm just an artisan/handcrafter selling my items in an international venue, not wholesale, so I'm not an "importer"

"What do you think about this? I'll be glad to hear your oppinions."

[Former_Member]

And I'm glad to hear you oppinions!!!
My main question has been answered: US sellers will get very angry if we international sellers, continue selling children items here in Etsy without testing ;)

So I've decided to begin to focus my efforts in my Dawanda shop, european people there ignores the CPSIA exists. If there will be no children items here in Etsy, guess a lot of US costumers will begin to buy there...
I will follow the labelling requirements in August, and in February 2010, I've nothing has changed, probably I'll close my shop here on Etsy.
Anyway, I think that US sellers must ask an attorney working on the consumers rights area, as I did. Maybe you'll get surprised...

[Former_Member]

sorry, I've nothing has change...= If nothing...

[herflyinghorses]

DebiDesigns Says: After reading at the very top of this link it states anyone who puts 2 things together and sells it is a manufacturur and if you send that product into the United States you are a importer and you must meet the same requirements, this applys to everyone international also.'

Yes, if we put 2 things together to make something, that does makes us a manufacturer but DOES NOT make us an importer. The buyer/customer IS the importer as stated on the U.S Customs and Border Protection site.

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/trade/basic_trade/internet_purchases.xml

"When you buy goods from foreign sources, you become the importer. And it is the importer - in this case, YOU - who is responsible for assuring that the goods comply with a variety of both state and federal government import regulations."

The CPSIA is a U.S law, not a world wide law.
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melimelon says: My main question has been answered: US sellers will get very angry if we international sellers, continue selling children items here in Etsy without testing ;)

Etsy is an international market place. Yes, the CPSIA is wrong and unfair on so many levels but that doesn't give U.S sellers the right to use scare tactics, bullying or resentment towards international sellers. If U.S citizens don't like the fact that international sellers aren't testing, then don't buy from us.

[DebiDesigns]

Right now I am not angry. The anger over this has gone out of me.

Good luck in selling your products to whomever wants to purchase them.

[MamaFamilias]

Melimelon, I would not take the forum response as a general guide of American sentiment. Most Americans don't know this new law exists. I think what comes out in the forums is venting frustration, not directed toward you, but towards the American gov.

Even if this law causes me to close my shop, I hope international sellers will continue to offer children's goods here.

[Former_Member]

There IS a 'CPSIA-like' law in the EU. Already in place.

[Former_Member]

meluseena says:
There IS a 'CPSIA-like' law in the EU. Already in place.

.......................

Has been for years.

[Former_Member]

Marking to read this later.

[MyTheta]

http://www.bsi-global.com/en/Standards-and-Publications/Industry-Sectors/Manufacturing/Safety-in-toy...

there's an old link - lots of regs already in place in many areas - google it - what took the US so long to expand on their own? oh yes, the lawsuit against a giant... hmmm sorry for the hint of sarcasm here... and of course it has a trickle down effect...

[Former_Member]

marking for an update on the insanity...