International sellers don't need to follow the CPSIA requeriments

[Former_Member]

Trying to explain well with my best english...

I've talked with a friend working as an attorney in the government consumer department here in Spain. He has read all the CPSIA and knows about it, and that's what he told me:
Since I don't have any office or department sited in the US and I'm not a US citizen or resident, I'm not supposed to know about the CPSIA or follow its requeriments. I'm just an artisan/handcrafter selling my items in an international venue, not wholesale, so I'm not an "importer" to your country, the "importer" is the us costumer that kindly purchase one of my items who needs to follow that requirements...
He explain it to my very well with an example: it would be the same as if someone in... Senegal, was selling a handcrafted or vintage toy on ebay. They can't do nothing if a US customer buys it online... is only his own responsability.

What do you think about this? I'll be glad to hear your oppinions. I've just designed my new labels to follow the label requirements on August and I'm preparing to only use wooden or motherofpearl button, no more snaps, zippers, plastic buttons or anything metallic... but I definately won't test my items (as I don't need to). I'm thinking about only sell to costumers outside the US or sell to everybody, writing a note in my shop noticing that I'm not testing my products, but maybe this will be unfair to all of you, north-americans handcrafters and artisans who are selling here on Etsy too and need to test...

[FayeMaloneDesigns]

Well, if that's correct, then the person "importing" the product will be liable for receiving "hazardous banned substances". Who would want to take that chance? And the testing destoys the product. So what would we be buying?

[Former_Member]

Faye, I thought the same, my dresses destroyed because being hazardous... but my friend told me that the item needs to be tested in a 3rd party sited in the USA, so they NEED to arrive to the importer in the USA. And then, if the importer don't wants to sell it, don't have to be tested...
We all are living in a global world, so your government can't just control what people do in other countries or what citizens make... Another example: You come on holiday to my house in Barcelona and buy in a shop a toy for your nephew, you forgot to put it in your lugagge and now I'm sending it to you... they cannot destroy it or fine you if you're not going to sell the item.

[LaurieRyan]

No our government can't control what you do but it CAN control what is imported into our stores. if you are importing with the intent to sell then you are bound by our laws to follow the safety rules

[Former_Member]

Exactly, Laurie. They will only control what is imported into your stores. I'm not importing, and as I'm not doing wholesale, the importer (my costumer) is not going to sell my item, so not me or my costumer need to test. I know it really makes no sense, but actually, that's how the law is written. My items need to follow the safety rules because I care about your children, but don't need to be tested...

[herflyinghorses]

Yes, the customer is the importer and testing falls on them. However, if you are wholesaling to the U.S and making items for resale in the U.S market, you are responsible to follow U.S laws.

[FayeMaloneDesigns]

Where does it say that the testing must be done here? We only have 13 labs, unless some new ones have been authorized. Most of the certified labs are in Asia. Many companies are finding it cheaper to send overseas for testing.

And yes this is a global world. And you are offering to sell over a global network selling venue.

I would really be torqued off (and not at you by any means, but at our government the dolts) if all the sellers in this country had to follow the rules for selling, and so many go out of business, or the prices were so high no one could afford the products and only the sellers from other countries were able to sell to us at prices we could afford.

This sounds like a good question to pose to Waxman, and his buddies.

[Former_Member]

I am going to put this in a totally overblown way to prove a point -
Mr. X in Europe puts radioactive Uranium (a hazardous substance) in a box and ships it by mail to Mr. Y in the US. Is Mr. X liable to US criminal charges?

To say that CPSIA does not apply to those making and selling children's items to US buyers goes against the basis of the main reason that CPSIA was passed by the US Congress - to stop dangerous foreign items for children from coming into the US.

If someone outside the US does not sell to anyone in the US then, of course, there is no need to follow the regulations of CPSIA.

BUT - if non-US manufacturers (and yes, if you make anything and sell it you are a manufacturer) sell to the US without following CPSIA, not testing, and not labeling, see how fast CPSIA is changed to put a stop to that - or how fast all packages coming into US Customs are searched and confiscated.

[herflyinghorses]

We have to follow the laws of our own country. If we are making items for RESALE, in the U.S, then yes we have to test and follow your laws. Any item, anywhere in the world can end up in the U.S. Does this mean that every single country has to follow U.S laws because one of their items might end up there? It's no different than a U.S citizen going on vaction and buying an item during their trip and bringing it back to the U.S.

[MamaFamilias]

This makes perfect sense, sort of. The seller is not on US territory, so does not have to comply with US safety laws. And the importer does not have to test it because it will not be for sale. (There is no law saying individual Americans have to test items purchased in other countries.)

The hitch is Etsy. I would make sure that Etsy's legal counsel is comfortable with this idea. Etsy is an American site and the financial transaction originates here....

[Former_Member]

Faye, that's why I posted this thread. It makes no sense, but the attorney is totally sure that that's how the law is written, is like if your government was telling you: You can buy your toys at Dawanda to a germany handcrafter, but you are not alowed to sell them there or any other place without testing... no justice for you!!!
And yes, you can send your items to Asia to be tested so an Asian manufacturer can bring items to your country to be tested.

Flying horses is right, international sellers are only exempt if they are not doing wholesale and their costumers are not going to resale the items in your country.

[herflyinghorses]

Mamafamilies, I've asked Etsy about that a few times and they haven't replied with an direct answer.

[MamaFamilias]

Faye, the law is written in a way that penalizes Americans. In general American legislation is based on lobbying, so you can easily see why our laws frequently help the rich get richer, but that's another thread.

Flyinghorses, vague sounds like normal legal counsel. If Etsy doesn't say no, international sellers should be ok to go ahead. And if Etsy doesn't say yes, they aren't legally liable in the unlikely event the gov comes after them.

[Former_Member]

At this point in time Europe has very strict laws regarding toys and testing (I don't make toys so I don't know all the ins and outs but I know they are strict, I buy for my son, and have been in place for years.)

A seller in the USA does not have to abide by European laws regarding testing...at least I see no CE certifications on any of the USA toys here. So how is it any different with international sellers and USA buyers??

A law covers that country and as long as you are not selling to USA stores for them to sell on how does that affect international stores?

Not being snippy!! Just wondering ;)

[herflyinghorses]

britishcreamtea, you raise a very good point.

How many sellers on Etsy research the laws of the countries they are shipping to? Every country has different restrictions and labelling laws. Did you know that you can only ship wooden toys to Italy?

[Former_Member]

Yes, britishcreamtea, this is the point.
A lot of etsy shops are sending plants and edibles to Europe althought it's not allowed, they need to be tested in a lab and I think nobody is testing them... so if a US seller is selling tea bags to a spanish customer (not wholesale or for resale) without testing, why should a spanish seller test a toy to sell it to a US customer?

[Former_Member]

EU safety laws (directives) regarding items for children (under 14 years of age) are probably very much more stringent than the laws in the US are and have been in force for years.

Everyone only has to abide by their own laws in their own country (or State) and that is all the Etsy TOU says we have to do.

[Former_Member]

I am in Canada and as I understand it(please correct me if I am wrong) the each state is responsible to enforce the CPSIA rules. Is this true? and if so how does the state enforce the rules on sellers in other countries? I am only thinking of people in the handmade community as described by the OP.

[Former_Member]

Whoops! Sorry for the grammer errors.

[VintageCarolina]

Melimelon,
in reference to your comment:
"Faye, You come on holiday to my house in Barcelona and buy in a shop a toy for your nephew, you forgot to put it in your lugagge and now I'm sending it to you..."

Instead of Faye coming to your house in Barcelona for holiday, just let me come and you can keep the toy! ;-0

[FayeMaloneDesigns]

Well, I guess that we are certainly screwed by our government if what you all say is true. They have done everything they could do to drive our economy in to the ground, why not this to. Thank God I have enough fabric to clothe my family and grandchildren for the next 10 years, since we are fu cked, and I didn't even enjoy it. But I'm certainly going to "love" driving my shoebox car, and illuminating my house with deadly mercury bulbs "thank you al gore" and only going to the 1 Dr, who is certified in a 3rd world country, that is practicing in 100 miles that is willing to take the pittance that the gov will be paying to them for "healthcare". I guess I'll wait till a couple of those that lurk on this forum and look for something to chew on and puke up to attack and then they can say we are so against out government. Well I guess I am. so call me a domestic terrorist. They all should be thrown our at the very least for their stupidity.

[Former_Member]

Melimelon, if international sellers don't have to follow the testing requirements, do we still have to follow the labelling requirements?

This CPSIA thingy is really giving me a headache sometimes. :(

[Former_Member]

I would imagine that any article being mailed in to the country must be subject to inspection and seizure by customs. Random, but unarguable, (or inarguable?) and a monetary loss for whom? Buyer or seller?

[herflyinghorses]

DancingHippo,

Same goes for labelling. Follow the labelling laws for your own country. If you are wholesaling or making items for resale (to be sold in U.S stores) than you must follow U.S labelling laws.

[Former_Member]

Thanks FlyingHorses!