In the proposed rules regarding this law

[Former_Member]

"101(a). This rule proposes a
procedure by which the Commission
will address requests for determinations
that these types of materials or products
do not and would not exceed the lead
limits. The effect of such a Commission
finding would be to relieve that material
or product from the testing requirement
of section 102 for purposes of
supporting the required certification.
If this proposal is issued in final form,
the Commission would concentrate its
efforts on evaluating those materials that
are commodity-like, are used across
industry in a number of applications,
and are subject to detailed consensus
standards related to lead content and
other pertinent properties. Given the
Commission’s resources, requests to
evaluate individual products of a single
manufacturer would be assigned a very
low priority."

This is only one statement that shows the regulatory agency applying the compliance and penalty standards for this law are engaged in the time honored tradition of making this a fair and effective law.

Until they decide who needs to comply and what needs to be tested, this law is not actionable.

This section states asks for a procedure to determine which items or materials don't need to be tested because BY NATURE they are already compliant or are believed to be due to their natural composition. Meaning they are already unlikely to contain levels of poisons unacceptable by the new standards.

The U.S. already has manufacturing standards. If you are following those, you are already covered. One law cannot stand in direct opposition to another and then not be fixed.

I recommend, however, that if your products are made using plastic beads and buttons, etc. from China that you rethink your materials in any case because you may already be out of compliance with current law.

Freedom is earned, not granted by entitlement.

You are already supposed to be in compliance with lead safety standards applied in the 1970s.

Stop the whining, wailing, and gnashing of teeth and learn the CURRENT law you are supposed to be following. Then, with the professional attitude with which you wish to be treated, let the feds know this law is written badly and needs to be carefully applied.

PROFESSIONAL, ladies. Stop acting like hysterical and hateful biddies.

[Former_Member]

"Freedom is earned, not granted by entitlement."

I have no idea where you are getting that. This is still the United States as far as I know.

"PROFESSIONAL, ladies. Stop acting like hysterical and hateful biddies."

Oddly enough, the only person I've heard the word hate from is you.

[Former_Member]

The U.S. already has manufacturing standards. If you are following those, you are already covered. One law cannot stand in direct opposition to another and then not be fixed.
----------------
If only other people got that idea! There are already laws about lead, importing and manufacturing toys. There was no need for this one.



Stop the whining, wailing, and gnashing of teeth and learn the CURRENT law you are supposed to be following. Then, with the professional attitude with which you wish to be treated, let the feds know this law is written badly and needs to be carefully applied.

PROFESSIONAL, ladies. Stop acting like hysterical and hateful biddies.
-----------------------------------
lol It is getting really old that every time someone posts "hey is this something I can do", its followed with 20 more "no you can because of a, b, and c" Yet a, b, and c never match up with all of those 20 people.

I'm continuing to sell because I really don't think this law is one that will be enforced, just one for the books in case a US importer disobeys the law yet again.

[Former_Member]

"Freedom is earned, not granted by entitlement."

I have no idea where you are getting that. This is still the United States as far as I know.
-------------------------
Yes general freedom is given here in America, but the right to keep that freedom is earned. Being part of the military, we work our butts off to make sure that freedom endures in America. kwim?

[Former_Member]

I know what YOU mean TurtleMommy, but I have no idea what Rabbithorns is talking about.

[Former_Member]

Wow.
Marking to watch this one.

[Former_Member]

lostinfaerieland, check these out:
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6011706
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6011130

Oh, yeah, maybe they don't "say" hate or fear, but my brother (a lawyer - public defender) always says - if it looks like shit and smells like shit, it's probably shit.

[Former_Member]

Great, so now you've called people who don't agree with you biddies and basically stated that differing opinions are "shit". Way to go. Your posts are becoming increasingly abrasive and, dare I say it, "hateful". I do understand most of your points, although I don't necessarily agree. If you want to get your ponts across to other people you might want to think about using less hostile language. People aren't likely to agree with you after being called names.

[Former_Member]

And i did not find either of those threads to be hateful. Impassioned, yes, but not hateful.

[Former_Member]

By not being an entitlement, I mean, that freedom is changeable. People wake up in this country expecting to be free. But people do that in free countries everywhere and we've seen them lose their freedom.

Were they bad or stupid people? No!

Were they complacent and thinking they were entitled to their freedom? No!

But is freedom itself by nature an entitlement? No. It is something we cultivate, nuture, protect.

It may be the birthright of every individual because we agree it is. But that doesn't mean we don't work to maintain it.

Expecting to be free because "this is America" is frightening to me. You can now be wire-tapped because the last president ran over your constitutional rights to privacy - a freedom. It is earned by our vigilence to uphold our rights to freedom. It's not granted as an entitlement just because.

[Former_Member]

Ok, now that I do understand, I totally get your point. Thank you for clarifying your statement.

[Former_Member]

lostinfaerieland, if I make a doll that looks like you and in my description tell everyone it's there so they can vent on you because of a stupid thing you did, do you not consider that to be hateful, or at least malicious?

Maybe you don't.

If I write a 1000 word essay on a thread that blames people for the oppression of crafty women while I sit in my comfortable home in America, complete with cell phone, cable TV and washer dryer, is that not a call to fear?

Maybe you don't think so.

And your opinion is NOT shit. It's valid.

So is mine.

And my opinion is that some people are posting very angry and unhelpful posts that are not helping other people understand how laws work or who to contact to help clarify this law to the benefit of American small business, but are writing loads of angry and fearful words meant to inspire more anger and fear.

So I'll retract my earlier words. And say instead, if it smells like hate or fear, and it looks like hate or fear, it's probably hate or fear.

[Former_Member]

There are play-nice rules in this sandbox. If you find my posts offensive, you are supposed to flag them accordingly. If etsy finds them to be really inapropriate behavior on my part. They will take the proper course and tell me to chill out. I'm willing to live by those rules.

[Former_Member]

the US legal system is set up to give us the right to be presumed innocent until PROVEN (beyond reasonable doubt) guilty.

(I can't exactly recall after 4 hrs of sleep, whether that's from the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.)

[Former_Member]

I've already sent Etsy the 2 potentially red-flag posts I've seen. Thanks for the reminder regarding the rules.

It would be nice for those stirring up fear about the new law to know the rules of how laws are made so they didn't feel they had to stir up panic, but due process instead.

[Former_Member]

rabbithorns says:

And my opinion is that some people are posting very angry and unhelpful posts that are not helping other people understand how laws work or who to contact to help clarify this law to the benefit of American small business, but are writing loads of angry and fearful words meant to inspire more anger and fear.


******************************************************

I'll admit I have only really skimmed here but I think this is paragraph is the "meat" of your argument (so to speak) and the motivation behind this thread.

I just wanted to chime in to say please don't let "those" types of contributions get to you. I'll admit that I have not seen "hateful" contributions to this topic (plenty of snark-but that's to be expected on these forums.) I rather enjoy a well thought out back and forth. No worries.

I had a point...oh yes! Good things are happening at many levels here with this law.

Anyway, that's just my two cents. I'm off to make some coffee and start my day. Enjoy yours.

[Former_Member]

What I find so hard is that we are actually on the same page in many areas of this discussion. But on other things I'll just hang onto my own opinions. Have a nice day.

[RobWhite]

Trying to quell panic is usually a pretty good thing, but we ask that you please have respect for other members of the Etsy community when you post her on the public Forums.