CPSIA CONSPIRACY

[#1]

http://www.dcexaminer.com/opinion/columns/TimothyCarney/Washington-toy-story-shows-why-regulation-helps-the-big-guys38690727.html

I think so...

[Former_Member]

The ones being demonized on this issue are Big Business, they are not the ones who wanted this law and pushed for it. It is pretty easy to find who did and US PIRG was one of them. I found this information on their website 2 months ago and they were very happy to take the credit for it, as far as I can see they still are taking the credit for it.
Instead of attacking someone whose opinion differs from yours why don't you just go check out their information?

[KreatedbyKelly]

That's an interesting read. Thanks for sharing!

[KGarnerDesigns]

marking

[AMjewelry]

VE -- I had already read PIRG's website a couple of days ago.

[AMjewelry]

Have you all looked here and thought about stealing some of the TIA's activities/tactics, etc. for getting what you want or possibly building a coalition of convenience?

[Former_Member]

anniepoo says:
you know I read a very old article along time ago that was basically saying it was the governments intentions to get rid of "mom and pop shops" small individually owned businesses...
i didn't think much of it at the time because I was in high school and never dreamed i would own my own business but i think we are seeing the start of it right now...


..................................................

This is true, it's the ugly path to communism.

[Former_Member]

yup...we ARE on the path...

[Former_Member]

What's interesting to me is that when I first started reading here, I kept reading comments that this was all Bush's fault, and nobody had a problem with that. It's only after people started posting information showing that Public Citizen, US PIRG, and other consumer reports were the special interests pushing this bill, that it was a Democrat sponsored bill (101 of 106 sponsors) and that Democrats insisted on making it retroactive, that Bush actually fought the bill and Democrats and PIRG issued press releases boasting about passing it over his objections etc, etc. that suddenly- the same people who were perfectly comfortable blaming one party and one person now insist that it's partisan or not helpful to mention the politics of those behind the bill.

No- being partisan is blaming Bush and the Republicans (who I did not vote for) for the bill until the facts cannot be ignored anymore, and then saying it doesn't matter.
Being nonpartisan is looking at the merits of this issue and the facts about who supported it and pushed it through without being influenced to dismiss those facts because it was your own party or a group you otherwise agree with.

Like it or not, Big Business did not write this law and they didn't push for it. Once it was a train they couldn't stop, they got involved, but they weren't the motivating force pushing this bill, as PIRG's OWN documentation shows.

And I simply cannot agree that lying is merely a matter of disagreement.

"You think they're information is wrong. PIRG doesn't. That's disagreement and it's also a question of the perspective you come from and the issue involved."

No, it's not simply a matter of perspective. It's an issue about telling the truth. PIRG and others continue to tell the public that testing costs are grossly exaggerated, testing will only cost around fifty dollars. They know better. People have sent in their estimates, legitimate, professional quotes from testing companies, and they have begged PIRG and others to please tell them where they can get this magic fifty dollar testing done.
No consumer group has been forthcoming with that information. IF they don't wish to appear to endorse a particular business, they could redact identifying information and publicize the quotes they got supporting their fifty dollar testing claim. They have ignored all such requests. Why would that be? Hmmm. Some of the people who sent them quotes.... are *members of PIRG,* and PIRG is, to their dismay, not taking a position they believe is honest or helpful on this issue.


To continue to spout the fifty dollars when they've been shown otherwise so many times, and begged for the sources for their claim is not a matter of a difference of opinion. It's dishonest.

Rick Woldenberg also notes their tendency to be misleading with their data- he went through a January 30 press release the various groups (PIRG, et al) released and pointed out the problems in it:
"The January 30 PR states: “In 2007, there were 473 recalls of children’s products, including millions of toys that contained dangerous levels of lead paint and other toxins. In 2008, consumers fared even worse with 563 recalls, including nearly 8 million toys.” Is this true? I have summarized the posted recalls from the CPSC website on the attached spreadsheet. I encourage you to open each of its seven pages and check my work (the citations are there)." (there are links and facts and figures in the original post)

"Of the 125 recalls due to lead-in-paint since January 1, 2007, 36 were for less than 5,000 units and like many (if not the vast majority), were very likely disclosed voluntarily by the companies themselves. Contrary to the assertions of the authors of the January 30 PR, the trend in recalls is SHARPLY DOWNWARD.

The misleading statistics used in the January 30 PR include crib and bassinet recalls, hoodie recalls, flammable clothing recalls, magnet recalls, and so on. This careless misuse of statistics has the effect of whipping up fear among legislators and the public. Fear is displaced, leading to support for a safety bill that will horribly miss its target. Notably, as I have been saying in my correspondence with you for three months, the vast majority of lead infractions are from LEAD-IN-PAINT AND JEWELRY. The consumer groups don’t mention this, but only ONE lead recall (10,000 pieces) in this period was due to substrate. [The circumstances are not clear.] EVERY OTHER LEAD RECALL RELATED TO L-I-P OR JEWELRY. Notably, none of the L-I-P recalls involved a reported injury. Consider the expense imposed on industry with that statistic in mind."

He also notes:
"The January 30 PR Misleads on Testing. The authors of the January 30 PR state that “testing costs have been exaggerated”. Not unlike their assertions on recall statistics, they do not supply invoices or quotes to show affected American businesses how to solve their testing dilemma. I have submitted actual quotes to you previously (see my letters of November 26 and December 12 at http://www.learningresources.com/text/pdf/no_more_telescopes.pdf). If testing is so cheap, why don’t these consumer groups reveal their excellent sources?"

These are not areas of mere disagreement or difference of perspective. These are misleading statements being used to support a law that harms thousands of families, if not more, and doesn't actually address the source of the problem in a meaningful way. It's important to know these lies and misleading statements are being made and who is making them and to whom in order to know what points to make to counter them.

You can read the rest of Rick's commentary and see links to the dishonest PR here:
http://learningresourcesinc.blogspot.com/2009/02/cpsia-dont-believe-consumer-groups-snow.html
http://learningresourcesinc.blogspot.com/

[Former_Member]

MLee, Ron Paul was not the lone voice against this. He is the only member of the house who voted against it.

In the Senate, 13 Senators voted against the first version.
In the final version only three Senators voted against it.
They are Kyl, DeMint, and Coburn.

It would apparently be partisan to let you know which party every no vote came from.

It is also apparently partisan to read PIRG's own documents attesting to the fact that they have been pushing for a bill just like this for years, that they testified in favor of it, that they are pleased to report they successfully prevented 'Big Business' from its attempts to block the bill, and it would be partisan to read their own press releases boasting that this is their bill.

[Former_Member]

hellome says:
I think a people's politics and beliefs affect how they see issues and dynamics at play.
---

Excellent point, AM. I have heard various references to the democrats in congress being at fault, and apparently also the consumer groups. Nord, who was appointed during the last administration and has more than this been a subject of some scrutiny, somehow remains above the fray and is portrayed as the hard working victim of power hungry liberals and a nanny government. Have I got it right? Oh, and Senator DeMint (r) is going to ride in on his white horse and save everyone from the morons and the cronies who don't know their asses from their mules.

So if looked at in just the right light, one could suspect some possible partisan sentiments as a possible subtext in all of this. Intentional or otherwise.

______________________________


that's definitely true... nord is overwhelmed and overworked, from one point of view... and a bush cronie with her hand in big business pocket from the other.

personally... i don't think either side is HEARING each other.

to wrapped up in extremes.



i think that really, the two groups do want to meet in the middle.

overregulation never stopped anything illegal from happening, or hurting people.



there was no limit on lead paint as substrates... and the law increases the penalties... so, it's not ALL bad.

there should have been more serious enforcement enacted against all these companies that sold toys with lead paint above the limit last year, instead of this whole over blown knee jerk reaction.

[Former_Member]

I have to agree, on both sides. Though I will say that it seems that the special interest groups want to make allowances for small businesses, but for some that isn't enough. The whole law has to be thrown out. Even the stay, which is put in place supposedly to help smaller businesses come into compliance, or so they are saying, also exempts larger businesses including imports. Which is where the problems are coming from. And still that isn't enough, the whole thing apparently needs to be rewritten by republicans. Why? I don't know why. Other than it seems to have become some kind of turf war, or they are trying to put something in or take something out in the rewriting that has nothing whatever to do with helping small businesses and crafters comply. And it is quite possible to my mind, that small businesses and crafters are being used and quite possibly manipulated to get a foothold in some way that really wasn't there before in order to do this. Is that what's happening? I don't know. But it is entirely possible that it is. Politics is a dirty dirty game. And it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

[Former_Member]

if only the government knew how to pull together, like people in times of crisis... :)

they like to play the partisan card.


i'm not a fan of big government, personally. i think the less the federal government is controlling, the better.

states rights.

we're all so different, and have such different needs and wants from state to state. it's true that we have overall commonalities, but, i just think at some point, the federal government got too big.

and you can't blame one side or the other, because they both have their "programs" and "regulations" that they think are so important. each new president adds to the growth of control.

[Former_Member]

The problem comes in when people can't behave responsibly on their own, then government has to step in. If the companies and importers were doing what they should have been doing all along, then perhaps some of these groups wouldn't have felt the need to initiate this law. If the CPSC had been trying to enforce the existing laws, perhaps there wouldn't have been this need. If businesses could be trusted to sell us safe productes, then perhaps we wouldn't need a Consumer Products Safety Council at all. But they don't, so we do. Just like people will continue to speed and then blame the police when they get a ticket, government will have to police businesspeople who are unscrupulous and put profit ahead of safety and other concerns about their products. An unfortunate reality, I'm afraid.

[Former_Member]

But I agree on the pulling together part 100%.

[Former_Member]

Sidenote on the product safety issue:

I happened to look in my local paper today and lo and behold there is an entire section devoted to....

(Drum roll please)

Recalled items.

I kid you not. An ENTIRE SECTION!

Reading through them, 99% of what I saw was listed as made in China and imported through a US company.

Lead stuff. Toxic paint. Small parts breaking. Etc.

[Former_Member]

Honestly I just wish we had the guts to say, you know what *country who repeatedly violates our existing safety laws*. Either shape up or we won't import from you. Period. Get their own government to work it out, if they want to sell to us. If they don't, fine. Because part of what frightens me about this small business/crafter thing is what is to stop a small company or single person shop overseas from importing unsafe items? What penalties will be imposed upon them if they sell items that violate the act. Nothing, since we have no jurisdiction there. At least the larger companies have something to lose. The others, not so much. And the little guy, probably nothing.

[Former_Member]

As for the long list of recalled items, I mean we don't think about it much because we don't hear about it from the likes of Hasbro and Mattel. But what about all those little no name manufacturers out there that fill the toy aisle at the dollar store, or the convenience store, or the super cheapie aisle at Walmart. I mean think about it for a minute. How little must a toy cost to produce if it can be sold for 88 cents at Walmart, or $1 in Targets dollar aisle, or at the dollar store. It's actually kind of frightening really. Those are the toys I worry about. Just the conditions of the factories where they are made freaks me out a little bit. And as for quality components and materials, didn't someone say at one point they were selling kids hair elastics that were actually made from recycled condoms? I mean, come on.

[Former_Member]

have you ever seen 'how it's made' ? very few people are involved in these processes anymore.

but, the cheap materials, for cheap products... yeh. they pour the cheapest components they can into those machines to crank out those cheap toys.

ugh.


i thought about manufacturing my monkeys, so i did a whole bunch of research last year. i couldn't find anywhere that had the actual work done, here. i know it has to exist, but i had no luck.

and when i found out what it'd cost to make each one... omgosh. half my materials costs, alone... but, in the end, i decided that quality was more important, and that i'll hire seamstresses that i can oversee, long before i import.


i couldn't believe it, tho... how cheap it was. it must cost them pennies to make those plastic toys you see in the $1 bins.

[Former_Member]

"there should have been more serious enforcement enacted against all these companies that sold toys with lead paint above the limit last year, instead of this whole over blown knee jerk reaction."

Bingo.

Instead we're killing ourselves with tainted peanuts and making up new laws to make this completely onerous because regulation is hard work.