what to do...

[#1]

given the post etsy admin put out "advising" sellers not to do a collective shop like we are working on, what do you all think is the best route to take with this?

[Former_Member]

I agree that expecting Japanese artists to ship now is a remote possibility. The ground reality is that they have more important things to care about now.

It looks positive that the admin will get back to us on this, I think meanwhile we can make a start with a blog and twitter. And once things are sorted out here at Etsy, we could link back always.

That's just my 2 cents as I don't want to be wasting too much time in the process of discussions.

[4GetMeNotTreasures]

I just noticed that lisa highlighted her post :) Thanks for that Lisa!

[4GetMeNotTreasures]

sounds like a plan nithya!

[Former_Member]

I agree-go for it nithya.

[Former_Member]

I see that several artists have already started tagging items with Japan, earthquake relief and so on. Tags that are easier to find. I have also done the same to my listings.

Meanwhile just convo me your email ids to send blogging invites. If we go in for a group blog i.e.

[Former_Member]

A blog is ready -
http://joyforjapan.blogspot.com/

I have already invited 4getmenottreasures to contribute. All other who would like to join please convo me your mail ids. We can list items in the blog and cross promote on multiple venues.

[Former_Member]

i did get a convo back from lisajune-again saying they are talking about things. But she did say that etsy would get behind the tagging and help advertise it-which I see as something positive.

[4GetMeNotTreasures]

thanks Colleen!

Sadly though, we already knew that they would get "behind" the tagging.

Tagging... ambiguous.

I understand they're *talking* and ... that *talking* takes time. But...we're now 4 days in --- and behind.

Hopefully..... praying.... that by the end of "office hours" today.........

[4GetMeNotTreasures]

Sigh....as I've been sitting here waiting to hear something... I decided to do a little bit of research (of course...not on a item for my own shop...)

HeartsforHaiti......

Shop opened -- 1/14/10
Started selling - 1/16/10

Two days... to set up shop - that's it.

(Basing the following #'s....on the date of the tsunami (Friday)....and on our *waiting for Etsy* time (till today) - so...four days)

In the first 2 days of selling - 1/16 & 1/17
HeartsForHaiti had -- 200 Sales.

In four days - 1/16 thru 1/19
HeartsForHaiti had -- 584 sales.

(The shops last sale - was on 7/11/10; they ended with a total of 2641 sales)

I'm not actually trying to *prove* the success of the shop...though - that is slightly obvious.

I AM trying to show what COULD have been done in the past 4 days.....even TWO days!

Yeah...my frustration level is rising again.

Next assignment...will be to research one of the other collective shops.

(Sorry...but...there's "proof in the pudding" there.... I can't get stats on "tagging")

[BrazenDesignStudio]

Wow 4Get, great job on looking into that for us, no wonder we are infuriated by Etsy's response. The word is out that Admin has said no and it's really starting to tarnish the image of Etsy as a helpful, giving, smaller DIY community that pulls together to help others in need. Seems the attitude is more we need to 'cover our asses' and frankly with the unbelievable devastation, I can't fathom how they can sit there in their warm, electrified homes and 'discuss' when action is needed NOW! It's appalling.

[Former_Member]

I don't know anymore-everything is just very frustrating. I just did my own monetary donation. Really horrible and so so sad-so much devastation over there.

[Former_Member]

Guess with all the other stuff going on with privacy issues this is on the backburner.

[4GetMeNotTreasures]

Yeah....... like they give an owl's butt about "legality issues" and privacy concerns.......

only "legality issues" when it comes to opening a shop to help people...who can't help themselves.

Sorry...but this is just totally unacceptable. Totally. I'll second Brazen-- appalling - the perfect word.

And please Admin...don't...don't... come back here and tell us how you "understand our frustration".

Actions - speak much louder than words....

[4GetMeNotTreasures]

oh... ummm.. to clarify.... so does non-action (speak louder than words)

[Former_Member]

I wish I had answer for you. But to put together good information on this topic will take a bit of time I'm afraid. :(

[Former_Member]

Whoa those are some stats 4get! Seriously, how BIG a difference it would make. To achieve something of that scale by taking the whole thing out of Etsy is not easy at all.

[Former_Member]

Nithya, I sent you an email about the blog!

[SarawenPerfume]

Nithya, thanks for adding me to the blog ... I have to run out today for errands but I'll write more tonight. Thank you so setting this up!

[4GetMeNotTreasures]

Yes nithya...those are "some" stats...and did make a huge difference.

Here are the *other* stats......

I did these #'s yesterday...based on the "4 days"

HelpTheGulfCoast Shop....

Shop opened -- 6/4/10
Started selling - 6/4/10

One day... to set up shop

(Basing the following #'s....on the date of the tsunami (Friday)....and on our *waiting for Etsy* time (till Monday) - so...four days)

In the first 2 days of selling - 6/4 & 6/5
HelpTheGulfCoast had -- 22 Sales.

In four days - 6/4 thru 6/4
HelpTheGulfCoast had -- 63 sales.

(The shops last sale - was on 11/26/10 they ended with a total of 744 sales - raising a total of $9,635.50)



AustraliansForDisasterRelief shop....

Shop opened -- 1/12/11
Started selling - 1/12/11

One day... to set up shop

In the first 2 days of selling - 1/12 & 1/13
AustraliansForDisasterRelief had -- 118 Sales.

In four days - 1/12 thru 1/15
AustraliansForDisasterRelief had -- 261 sales.

(The shops last sale - was on 2/24/11 they ended with a total of 508 sales - raising a total of $6841.08)

When I originally posted the stats for HFH - I was not trying to *prove* the success of that shop...I was trying to show what COULD have been done 4 days.....even TWO days!

But now...in posting these stats - my objective is both. Please note - that I did these stats last night. I did not see lisa's post before going to bed.

I will respond to THAT shortly.

Next assignment...will be to research one of the other collective shops.

(Sorry...but...there's "proof in the pudding" there.... I can't get stats on "tagging")

[Former_Member]

In the blog, I have not mentioned a specific percentage that will be donated towards the cause of Japan. Since different sellers are pledging different percentages, I thought when the sellers list an item they can mention what percentage will be donated.

[4GetMeNotTreasures]

lisajune says
I wish I had answer for you. But to put together good information on this topic will take a bit of time I'm afraid. :(
*********

Lisa,

I have done my very best to be understanding, respectful, & patient since last Friday – now 5 full days after this horrific disaster in Japan. And, in case you haven’t had the opportunity to read the news on Japan today – what was already an incomprehensible devastation – is getting worse as every minute goes by.

Not to diminish anything you and other Admin have discussed on this topic to date – but… your response above – given the dire circumstances – is simply unacceptable. There isn’t unlimited time available for you and other well-intentioned Admin – “to put together good information”. Keep plugging away at it for sure! Because sadly, we all know another disaster will happen when it can be used.

Japan needs help NOW. Not…in 3 weeks….3 months…or next year. Now. And Etsy sellers want to help NOW. Let’s get moving.

I was willing to *allow* you to ignore my original questions that I posted here & sent to you via convo – because I was under the impression that by the end of the weekend – something would be moving forward. (No, you did not lead me on – it was my assumption – and I will take responsibility for that.) That’s no longer the case – I want answers to those questions.

You & stella both refer to the *rules* on collective shops in the debate on opening one to help Japan.

In your rules (DOs & DON’Ts) – it specifically says that a collective shop can be opened.


From the DOs & DON’Ts:

Multiple people using a single account (collective shops)
DOs and DON'Ts > Membership > Multiple people using a single account (collective shops)
An account that involves more than one person is called a collective. There are three scenarios, outlined below, in which multiple people who know each other may use a single Etsy account.
Collaboration: Artisans combine their skills to make and list handmade products in an Etsy shop. For example:
• One artist screen prints fabric, then another artist sews clothing from the fabric. The finished product is listed in a collective Etsy shop.
Sharing a Shop: Multiple people who know each other use a single Etsy account to post their own separate items in one shared shop. For example:
• Two jewelers share a collective Etsy shop, but they create and list their own jewelry items in the shop.
• Friends, a painter and a furniture maker, share a collective Etsy shop to sell their work together.
• Vintage sellers share a shop to sell their vintage finds together.
Shop Management Help: Someone helps a friend or family member in the same household or shared physical space manage their Etsy account. For example:
• A person helps a friend or family member list or ship an item. The item is listed in their collective Etsy shop.
• With permission and supervision of a parent or legal guardian who is at least 18 years of age, a minor and an adult have an Etsy shop together. Per Etsy's Membership policies, the adult is responsible for the account.
If your shop is a collective, you must comply with all of Etsy's policies, including these additional policies specifically for collectives:
• A collective may not be an entity that represents multiple artists by contract (for example: a gallery, a consignment shop, an art agency/dealer).
• The Public Profile page for the account must fully disclose accurate information about each person, their role in the Etsy shop and the relationships between the members of the collective. Etsy may ask for additional information and require that the shop comply with additional requirements.
• The individual who registers the account is responsible for all activities of the account, the bill and any transactions. This includes participation in community features of the site.
• All standard listing policies (see Shops and Listings) apply to collective Etsy shops. All handmade items must be created by members of the collective.
Members who do not comply with Etsy's policies may be subject to review, which can result in suspension of account privileges and/or termination. Suspended or terminated members remain obligated to pay Etsy for all unpaid fees per our Terms of Use. If any of Etsy's policies are violated by a member of a collective, all accounts registered to members of the collective are subject to suspension of privileges and/or account termination. Etsy will not mediate disputes between individuals within a collective.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It says right in there Lisa:

• Because of the laws concerning charitable fundraising, a charitable collective shop must comply with Etsy's Charitable listings and shops policies.

So – if it has this statement – in ETSY’s rules –

Why is THIS shop not being allowed?

[4GetMeNotTreasures]

To take it a step further – TEAMS & TEAM SHOPS. Team shops – ARE allowed – at this very second in time - according to Etsy.

Again – from your OWN rules…the DOs and DON’Ts:
Teams
DOs and DON'Ts > Community > Teams
• Teams may gather shops whose promotions entail donating proceeds to charities, but these activities must comply with Etsy's Charitable listings and shops policies.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So, here in this Team – that I’m posting in – we can gather shops who will donate proceeds to charity. It says so right there ^^^

But then…let’s move on to TEAM SHOPS……

Resources for Etsy Teams
A Guide to Team Shops
Team Shop / Group Shop Guide
This is a set of guidelines for Etsy Team shops, primarily compiled from the Do's and Don'ts, Terms of Use and the General FAQ. For more information on Etsy Teams, including what Etsy Teams are and how you can join, please visit the Team pages. This list is intended to be a set of guidelines and terms that cover issues and considerations specifically brought up by Team or group shops. Group shops, like all Etsy shops, must abide by the Do's and Don'ts and the Terms of Use for all Etsy members.
For more information about selling on Etsy, please check the Selling FAQ. While group shops and Team shops are allowed, you organize and run them at your own risk. Please be aware, when the new Community Section with improved features for Etsy Teams launches, the Team shops program will be re-evaluated. Since there will be many other useful tools for Etsy Teams when these new features are launched, we may discontinue our allowance of Team shops at that time.
Etsy Team Accounts
Etsy Teams, like individuals, can either have a profile account (a buyer account) or a seller account.
Opening a Team or Group Etsy Shop
As you probably know, running a successful Etsy shop is no small task. There are many consideration to keep in mind before jumping into a Team shop. We recommend working together as an Etsy Team and getting to know your fellow Team members for a length of time before opening an Etsy shop, to determine how you best communicate and work together effectively.
Set-Up Considerations
To designate an account as a seller account on Etsy, you must associate a credit card number with the Etsy account, for the purpose of paying bills incurred by the account. The team should decide carefully how to handle this, as likely it will be one individual's credit card which is put on file with the account, since Etsy Teams typically do not have joint bank or credit accounts (as they are not formally organized or recognized by governments as a business or an organization). The card holder of the card which is on file is responsible for payments, and all late penalties that apply to regular shops apply to Etsy Team or group shops.
• Do understand that multiple people sharing one account can be complicated.
• Do be up front about each person's role in your shop; add that information to your public profile.
• Do decide on guidelines about how payment is to be accepted for items sold in the shop, and what is to be done with this money after it is received. If your Team plans on using Paypal, do some research on the Paypal site to find out how an account can be accessed by your Team there before accepting payment with it.
• Do make alternate plans for shipping and collecting payment in the event a Team member cannot fulfill their responsibilities to the Team shop. All members should have complete contact information of other members involved in this process.
• Do have a clear plan and budget for money collected as payment for items sold in the Etsy shop. Be sure all Team members are aware of this plan and budget.
• Don't ask Etsy to mediate disputes between multiple people fighting over the same account.
• Don't expect Etsy to split bills between partners or otherwise offer special services to group shops.
Shop Management Considerations
Your team must decide what and how it is going to sell items.
Team shops can sell items donated by Etsy Team members or items made collaboratively by the Team. Items made collaboratively by a Team would also fall under the category of a Collective. Please see the Do's and Don'ts for more information on selling as a Collective.
• Do disclose all members who have access to the Team shop account in the Team shop profile, and be sure all members disclose this access in their individual stores, as required by the Do's and Don'ts.
• Do follow all Etsy rules when running the group account. Breaking any of Etsy's rules will result in account suspension and/or termination. This includes all of your accounts by virtue of association, even if it is a group account. In other words, Etsy suspends the use of the site for a person, whatever account name(s) you operate under. A rose is a rose is a rose is a rose.
• Do decide an organized system for shipping sold items. The items can either be collected and shipped from a dedicated Team member who has volunteered to handle shipping, or can ship from the individual seller who made the item. Clear communication is required when the shop is opened among its members how orders will be processed and shipped.
• Don't buy from a Team shop that you have password access to - this is considered buying from yourself, which is shilling feedback.
• Don't list the same unique item in multiple accounts on Etsy - Team members cannot list a unique item both in their shop and in the Team shop.
• Don't be a reseller. A reseller is a person who sells unaltered items they have previously bought, often at a markup. This includes items which were handmade by someone other than yourself to whom you have no personal relationship. Be sure any promotion items (promos) that are for sale in your shop are handmade.
Overall, we want your Etsy Team Shop to be a tool to help your Team accomplish its goals. If you have questions, please email support@etsy.com, teams@etsy.com or check in the Forums, the FAQ's and the Do's and Don'ts, as you would with your own individual shop.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^
So – why can’t THIS TEAM open an Etsy shop & give the proceeds to ‘a recognized tax-deductible charitable organization (for example: 501(c)(3) status or equivalent with the IRS, similar legally-recognized non-U.S. charitable organization) must receive appropriate consent from the charitable organization.’ (as stated in your Dos and Don’ts for Charitable Listings)?????

I will say it again. A collective shop has been PROVEN to work. The framework for one already exists….three-fold!

Again…obviously – something – happened that has *someone* at Etsy concerned about this shop opening – for whatever the reason. Which is fine. Let’s deal with that/those problems – and move forward! If the problems were that catastrophic – collective shops would no longer be possible – period.

The ONLY potential problem I see reading these rules is this:
“Don't buy from a Team shop that you have password access to - this is considered buying from yourself, which is shilling feedback.”

And ya know what? THAT can & SHOULD be overlooked when it comes to a collective shop for charity – especially those that are “one time shops” like we’d be referring to. OF COURSE I’d prefer to buy a product that would benefit the charity – that would be the purpose of the shop!

So, put the concerns on the table. Enough ambiguity. Tell us like it is – and let’s work through THOSE issues together. Stop trying to build something new – in a short time frame (which is already too late, imo). Take the existing structure and replace/rebuild the areas that have issue.

Etsy DOs & DON’Ts say that this is possible. But – Admin is saying it isn’t. And people are dying. And people are injured. And radiation is leaking. And fires are happening. And people are hungry. And people need clothing. And medical supplies are needed. And Japan’s list of needs goes on.

And we’re still running around the damn mulberry bush.

[Former_Member]

That's because everyone is a little busy keeping etsy from imploding today. But, how many have died in Japan, how many are missing, how many can get sick from radiation illnesses? Compared to what they are dealing with there...our little worries are nothing really.

I think at this point a yes or no would be good-either there can be something worked out and this is what it is, or no, it won't be worked out-then those who want to do something can actually move forward in a different way rather than waiting months for nothing.

[Former_Member]

ok-so I just read closer what you wrote dee-guess I just basically said the same thing :)

[4GetMeNotTreasures]

Yeah, I agree Colleen... today. I saw Lisa was a bit busy. But that doesn't excuse the 4 preceding days. And, the privacy issue isn't going to go away in the near future - so all forum moderators will be busy - for quite some time.

And that's time that Japan does not have. You're right - it's time I 100% agree -- it's time for them to crap or get off the pot.

I have some concerns with all this "tagging". I'm really & truly hoping that all of these well-meaning sellers are abiding by the "charitable" rules. (Got *real* permission from the "recognized" charity they say they are donating to).
THAT is severe if they haven't. And, though it's IN Etsy's rules...it's pretty much the law. And charities will have people canvassing the internet now to see who is "abusing" their name. Sadly...the rats of the world come out at times like this - and will use well known charity names to scam folks out of money.

Sigh...looks like I just gave another GOOD reason for there to be a collective shop.

Anyway - It's 1AM here...so I'm hitting the sack.