what to do...

[Former_Member]

given the post etsy admin put out "advising" sellers not to do a collective shop like we are working on, what do you all think is the best route to take with this?

[Former_Member]

i say tag items that individual shops are donating proceeds for with the tag JFJ

anyone think an online auction would be cool?
we'd get donations from sellers put it on a blog post...
people bid for a week and at the end the person pays for the item with what they bidded on it and proceeds we give to a charity like the red cross..just an idea

[Former_Member]

Yes we need a common tag - JFJ works fine. And the address to forward money to in paypal.

[Former_Member]

I'm willing to do the online auction.

[Former_Member]

I think you really need to firm up what charity you want to give to before going too far with anything. Etsy requires that you list the charities and get permission from them to use their name-even if it ends up just listing and tagging items in individual shops. And on an auction (which I think is a good idea :) people will be more willing to give and bid if they know exactly where the money is going.

[4GetMeNotTreasures]

I'm going to work my way up this thread instead of from the beginning. Basically cause I think what Colleen says is the core bottom line -- regardless of the type of effort that is put forward. People are going to want to know the designated charity. That truly needs to be the first priority, IMO.

That said...I'm unable to help with auctions & such - I'm clueless when it comes to that. And, I'm anti-social (noooooo social networking at all!).

As for the tagging items for individual shops to donate to their *own* charity. Though I admire that....and do it myself (for Lucinda) -- I won't be affiliated with it via a Team for an effort like this.

It's wonderful for Admin to say that "this is the way to go...." -- but...they also "absolve" themselves of Teams. Meaning - the Captain, etc. are "in charge" and need to "oversee" what their team does. So, with that in mind....and not knowing 90% of the Etsy community - I'm not very comfortable "supporting" people I don't know -- by saying "yes, they're definitely giving to _____ charity". When we enter the realm of believing in people to actually give the $$ after an item has sold -- then it should stay as an individual effort and not be affiliated with any group (Team/Etsy/otherwise). In other words...should something go askew -- *we* as a team would have nothing to do with *it*.

I still believe in the collaborative shop. Sorry. Yes - things can go askew & yes, it is a lot of work. But - it's all controlled in many aspects. As long as everything is up front and open (knowing the charity; posting the figures to the blog; having more than one person included in the finances; etc.) the worst thing that could happen is a seller doesn't ship an item that was purchased......and the worst case *fix* is that the customer would be refunded the $. The shop itself would be out 20 cents.

However, should the decision be to open a shop -- I would strongly recommend that Victoria be contacted & have her walk through everything that needed to be done. She IS the one who set up the "basics" of the shop - and would know the proper order of events to get it off the ground.

I've got some other things to catch up on now -- but I'll be checking back in throughout the evening to see what other thoughts/decisions are.

[BrazenDesignStudio]

So was it a plain and simple, no from Admin, or a post advising against it? If it can work for Haiti, why on earth can't something be set up for Japan?

[4GetMeNotTreasures]

Hi Brazen. A post advising against it.
Can all be read here (the discussion is still ongoing, I think)

http://www.etsy.com/teams/7714/ideas/discuss/6814629/page/21

[Former_Member]

I got an e-mail blatantly saying "don't do this"

[Former_Member]

wow. I'm really sorry-that is very frustrating!

[4GetMeNotTreasures]

I'm sorry Kelly. I wish I understood what was *really* going on. I'm trying to understand & figure out how we can help Japan - but....seems they don't want to give concrete answers.

My question for today (to them) is/was going to be about a Team shop. Would that *work* within their guidelines? Many, many team shops exist - and have even before the forum migration.

http://team.etsy.com/teamshops.html

I'm still going to ask in the other thread (since that seems to be the one that *they* are following) --- but, I'm guessing since they told you "no" about opening the shop.....that they have reevaluated the "rules" - and just haven't bothered to tell anyone (again) or changed their written policies (again).

[BrazenDesignStudio]

Yeah how can they allow other team shops but not one for this cause??? That's utter b*llshit, excuse my swearing, but that makes me mad! It's so unfair that they can arbitrarily change the rules when it bloody well suits them.

[Former_Member]

Hey,

I entirely understand how frustrating it is to hear the message, 'Please don't do this, we have rules'.

Please don't get disheartened at our attempts to organize for charity within our policies. Our policies are designed to protect sellers and consumers from very real legal liabilities involved with raising money for charity.

I'm here to help and if you have any questions that you need some input from an admin on, please feel free to convo me directly.

[Former_Member]

Lisajune, thanks for responding-I think the question I have (and maybe others of us have as well) is where in the rules does it say no large charity shops? And if those are the new rules why did they change? The reason why the message "please don't do this we have rules" is so frustrating is because there is no explanation or alternative offered. If this suddenly goes against the policies, then why does it? And what are the alternatives? If the alternative is individual shops donating sales on their own, then how can you as admin make sure that those shops are doing what they are supposed to according to the rules so that those liabilities you mention don't happen within individual shops?

Ok-so that was more than one question :) We just want answers-no just a no without an explanation. Thanks

[Former_Member]

If the alternative is individual shops donating sales on their own, then how can you as admin make sure that those shops are doing what they are supposed to according to the rules so that those liabilities you mention don't happen within individual shops?
-----------------------------------------------
I've been thinking about this after I wrote it-I don't want this question to come across as I am anti people giving to charity within their own shops. I do it, and it is something I feel strongly about (obviously, since I keep arguing :) I just ask in curiousity as how it would be more effectively protecting rights and stuff than a huge joint charity shop. Thanks again!

[Former_Member]

Let's find a way. Now the front page has changed but before it was dedicated to the sea...tasteless.

[4GetMeNotTreasures]

lisajune says Edited on Mar 12, 2011
Hey,

I entirely understand how frustrating it is to hear the message, 'Please don't do this, we have rules'.

Please don't get disheartened at our attempts to organize for charity within our policies. Our policies are designed to protect sellers and consumers from very real legal liabilities involved with raising money for charity.

I'm here to help and if you have any questions that you need some input from an admin on, please feel free to convo me directly.
**********
lisajune,
First – thank you for popping in – and responding here in this discussion where the topic of how we can help Japan should be taking place.

That said however, your post is filled with a lot of words – that don’t say much in regards to understanding the confusion *we* have or – how *we* can help Japan within Etsy’s rules.

So, no…I don’t think you do understand the frustration. Victoria stated it well in the other thread. Your post yesterday “advised against” opening a charity shop – and last night it went to “no”. If you understood the frustration – there would be a concrete *visible* explanation as to why all of a sudden – it’s an outright “no”.

You don’t want us to get ‘disheartened’ – but yet…..*you* (Etsy) are not offering out any viable suggestions – with clear explanations of what can be done.

As far as some of us know – opening a collective shop IS within your policies! Both as a collective “stand alone” shop as well as a “Team” collective shop with the proceeds going to a charity. This is in your own D&D’s. It’s not something we’re “making up” along the way.
Obviously, something…somewhere…somehow…came to *your* (Etsy) attention – that is very real and valid – that could *potentially* bring some ‘real legal liabilities’. I’m not arguing that possibility. However, I am arguing that Etsy is keeping that to themselves – AND – still has these D&D’s listed. If something has changed – then change it and let the community know. If it’s *only* a “concern” – then bring forward that/those concerns and allow the individuals/teams decide if they are willing to take the risk of opening a collective shop. Etsy is the one sending “mixed messages” here – not us. We can’t be in any or all of the Admin’s minds & their knowledge.

“Proof” has been given of the success of a charitable collective shop. And yes, I understand there are possibly new concerns. However, that doesn’t change the fact that a successful shop ran.
You threw out a couple of suggestions, mostly based on individual shops donating $$ on their own – “tagging” being one of them. Not only I, but others – had questions and concerns about how these ideas “could” work. And, no answers came forward. The closest answer from you was “I really think tagging could work”. I’m sorry – that’s not a viable answer. If you added “this is why……” – I, and others – just might be able to understand!

From where I see it lisajune – this ball is now in Etsy’s court – you’ve given us – the community - no choices here. (with the exception of going off-site to open a shop)

Since we don’t know what rules *could* be broken – with whatever is suggested here. And, methods that would be traditionally used (the Promo Forum) to attract attention to shops that would be willing to participate *individually* - have been taken away.
And, you’ve now stated that there are ‘from very real legal liabilities involved with raising money for charity.’ that *we* are unaware of --- and IF/HOW they can impact us as individual shop owners.
And, the TOU’s, D&D’s are useless in these cases.

I really think that *you* (Etsy) need to come forward – here – and give us some viable suggestions as to what *we* as a community can do to help when tragic situations like this arise.

As for convoing you directly – why? Why can’t you just answer here? Once we begin convo sessions (or emails) – we cannot *share* that with others. (Etsy rules…not mine) This effort needs to be shared…not hidden. Not just for Japan – but for other disasters/issues that may arise.
If I convo you – it’s only my interpretation of your answer that can come back here. I can’t quote… So, more ambiguity.... more of “He said – she said”. There’s no room for that here. Enough. The bottom line is to find something that will work – as well as a collective shop – in raising dollars for those people who need it NOW in Japan. Not a year from now in Japan. Now.

For every minute we dance around the mulberry bush here – someone is dying in Japan. In that same moment someone died – someone is being rescued who will need help. Families are still being evacuated – they will need food…shelter…. This isn’t a joke! And, it’s going to get much, much worse for Japan before it gets better – IF better is even possible.
So – can we STOP going around the mulberry bush – and all sit down – and figure out what we can do to make something happen?! 36 hours – have now been wasted.

[Former_Member]

I'm very disappointed that etsy has chosen to not allow this. I donated several items to HeartsForHaiti shop, it seemed to be a smashing success!

[4GetMeNotTreasures]

Thank you Jewel - for your donations then & your desire to support now.

Hopefully...we'll be able to do something...soon....

[Former_Member]

I posted this earlier today in the Ideas thread but wanted to bring it here too as it seems this is the thread administration is reading:

I am totally baffled by Etsy's stance on this. I just heard that Kelli received an email from admin explicitly telling her not to start the shop, a bit of a departure from "advising against."

Though I never really felt that Hearts for Haiti was super supported by Etsy, Inc. we did receive positive feedback and help from some individual administrators and I'm forever grateful to Alison for her Storque feature on us. One of the first things I did when we decided to open a shop was contact Etsy and, though it took them a while to respond, they were fine with it. I never heard from them that they were unhappy with anything we did and we were always very careful to follow the TOUs. With 2641 sales we didn't have one Etsy complaint (that I'm aware of) or PayPal claim against us, it all ran amazingly smoothly.

I have been contacted by every major fundraising shop that has started up on Etsy since HFH and have always been happy to help folks get things started up. In the face of this ever-growing disaster I am again ready to help, as are several of my fellow HFH-ers. We did it once before, why can we not do it again?

Administration, I'm really hoping we can open up this dialogue. Instead of banning large charitable shops, which have been very effective in both fundraising and community building (not to mention great exposure for Etsy) it seems to me that we need to stop trying to piece together and apply policy for collective shops and individual fundraising when what is really needed is a new category for charitable shops in the TOUs. Etsy obviously has some very real and certainly valid concerns about the workings of these shops but we have proven not only that they work but that the community wants them. Let's figure it out!

[BrazenDesignStudio]

Excellent post 4Get, I couldn't have said it better myself. As for admin sharing their concerns with us, in light of past behaviour I'm not going to hold my breath.

Frankly this is important and I'd like to do what little I can to help save lives, not struggle through red tape and bicker over petty crap. I do not understand, nor do I find it acceptable that Etsy is hindering our efforts to help. This is why we are such a great community, perfect strangers willing to donate revenue for very real causes and I now feel we're handicapped. Sure individual shops can give away sales on their own but that isn't going to be as successful and that will hurt our efforts at raising money. This place is becoming more and more big business and more and more removed from real people. Shame on you Etsy.

[4GetMeNotTreasures]

Hi Victoria! Thank you for bringing that over here. What you have said there...speaks volumes!

If I don't see a response here tomorrow when I get up - I will convo my post to lisajune. I still don't understand why it *has* to be that way...but...whatever.

[4GetMeNotTreasures]

Thanks Brazen.

:) I'm trying to give some "credit" here :)
A "discussion" needs more than one voice....
and if that "discussion" is based on "opposing" thoughts..... then.... both "sides" need to discuss - so there can be a genuine understanding.

Of course, my expectations may differ slightly to what my objective is. But...that ball isn't in my court anymore, is it?

I've now seen 4-5 posts..asking direct, valid questions, concerns and ideas. the community has proven we're trying to work WITH Admin here to make a positive difference.

We'll see...what the morning brings. And, as I said to Victoria - I will convo my post if there are no answers - and hopefully, at least that - will receive an answer.

Though personally....I'd much rather answer questions in a thread -- than have to answer 30 convos on the same subject. But - that's me.

And..I really wish I could disagree with you on your last statement. But sadly...more and more that appears the way things are lately.

[Former_Member]

If Etsy doesn't allow setting up a shop for this, how about setting up a dedicated blog and doing this? We could always get more people aware of it using Twitter. I can take this up, do let me know.

[TintedTextiles]

This just makes me sad. I know for a fact that etsy consumers would be thrilled to be able to shop in one shop to make purchases that would directly help the people of this horrible event. I'm so disappointed that this isn't happening...truly disappointed. In my mind, etsy has ALWAYS been the supporter of "community"...what the hell??? If this isn't "community"...then what is? I'm sorry, but the more I read about the "no"...the more angry I get. I have always been proud to be a part of the etsy community...but this is making me think twice about what etsy considers "community".