What don't the rules of SEO always apply on Etsy?

[BlackCatStudio98]

I'm confused and frustrated, and sometimes I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle. I know the SEO rules and apply them. But sometimes they just don't apply.

For example I did a search for the keywords "chunky bracelet". I have a bracelet on page one that has the words chunky bracelet last in the title, and I have a bracelet on page eight with chunky bracelet as the first words in the title and a matching tag of course. And the bracelet on page eight has more views and a lot more favorites than the bracelet on page one. So why are they in that order for that search? This goes completely against the SEO rules.

I know Etsy rotates items to keep the pages fresh, but sometimes they rotate too much. As another example I had a necklace that was on page one for chainmaille. It has the most views of all the items in my shop, but I watched it go from page one to page 6 to page 12 to page 18 and into oblivion. I had to completely redo my title and tags and use different keywords in order to start getting views again. I'm fine with an item moving from page one to page three, but going from page one to not even being in the first 20 pages seems a little ridiculous.

I realize tags and titles need to be tweeked sometimes, and that it's part of the job, but I have been having to change a lot of my items to different keywords to get views again. I can't be redoing titles and tags on most of my items every couple of weeks. It's just too much.

Has anyone else been having this problem? Has Etsy changed something in the way they rank items for relevancy?

[Former_Member]

Both Etsy and Google factor in "Popularity" to determine rankings in search results. Each of these search engines uses different factors to measure popularity: Etsy uses Sales and Favorites and Google uses Backlinks and Reputation (mostly backlinks).

Your listing on page one would have stayed there if it started selling, otherwise it is pushed further and further back in the search results as the listings which ARE selling stay on or near page one.

Newer and smaller shops get a brief chance at high rankings on Etsy Relevancy search results but only stay there much longer if the listing becomes popular.

As you have seen, changing keywords makes no difference at all. If you have good keywords, leave them alone and work on promotion and marketing and anything else that can generate sales. The more sales you make, the higher up in the Etsy Relevancy search results your listings will appear.

Every online ecommerce venue LOVES popular high selling items and usually shows those first to shoppers.

[GirlpowerKnits]

Do etsy backlinks count toward the google ranking? Like when I link to a section of my shop (all my listings), or to a specific shop item?

[Former_Member]

more views and faves wont automatically rank you higher in a given search.
What is more important is the recent rate of those, not the lifetime total.

if they used only lifetime totals, ooak people like me would be toast.

Also, total views on an item arent important for another reason, They can come from anywhere. If they were, people on promo/heart the first page teams would always rank well. What is important is the views/hearts you get for a Given search. Getting views on a search for stainless steel isnt going to help you in a search for chainmalle bracelet for you stainless steel chainmaille bracelet. That does nothing to tell the search engine that what you have is a chain mail bracelet. Clicks in a search for chainmail bracelet will help you rank high only in a search for chainmail bracelet. Not chainmaille, chain mail, chain maille or chainmail. All of those spellings return different search results. Are you in all of those? Not all people with money to spend can spell.

You can even out the vicissitudes by being relevant for a larger number of searches.

I dont see you doing that.

[BlackCatStudio98]

By the way my title was supposed to say "why" not "what" (eye roll).

I appreciate the info Mary and Alex. Even if it is somewhat depressing. I have no clue how to go about marketing my items and where to find the time to do it. Facebook and Pinterest have been useless.

Alex, I don't understand the recency of ratings thing because the chainmaille necklace I was talking about was getting daily views until it got moved farther back in the search and so of course the views decreased. So I guess it must be the popularity thing. Story of my life; loser of the popularity contest. :-P

I do use the different spellings for chainmaille, but only if I have extra tags. And I don't put it in my titles since that would look really strange and wouldn't leave room for other keywords. I will do better about having tags for the different spellings.

So Alex, when you say you don't see me being relevant for a large number of searches, do you mean that I don't have variety in my keywords?

Emily, as far as I know those links don't count as backlinks for google.

[Former_Member]

if popularity were important, I would never sell a thing or rank high, since 90% of my listings are new.
you have to do the fb and pinterest all the time. Results take time to show. You are planting seeds. SOme may grow, some may not, but never stop planting.

for yuo chainmaille stuff....

rotate those different spellings among them and see what gets you traffic. But, you need the term ion both title and tags to be found.

here is how things are ranked in a search for .....
chainmaille bracelet

items with that exact term in titles and tags go first
Other factors come into play to rank those

items with "chainmaille bracelet" in title =with NO words between them, then those words in different tags go next

in jewelry, that means page 67.

the other categories dont matter. If you only have that term in the title, or in a tag, you will be buried so deep your mother would stop looking for you.

thats what you are doing. Terms only in a tag. Or only in the title.

like this one

https://www.etsy.com/listing/176357018/chainmaille-jewelry-stainless-steel?ref=shop_home_active_1

only chance of you being found is for edgy ring, and chainmaille jewelry.

stainless steel isnt helping much, since no one is going to type that in when looking for this.

knotted steel ring??
barbed wire ring??

those might work

capiche?

[BlackCatStudio98]

Sorry, but I don't know what you mean about that ring. I know that titles and tags have to match and I have a tags that match every word in that title. I do have some tags that aren't in the title (such as barbwire ring), but that's because I can't put 13 tags in a title, so I use the extra tags for less common search terms. In a search for barbwire ring there are only 12 items therefore it shows up with only a tag for barbwire. I don't need it in the title too.

Searches for chainmaille are my most popular and edgy and stainless steel are some of my other really popular searches for me to get views, so I use those, but I agree I need some other keywords too. I just don't know what. I've been trying new ones out, but I haven't been getting any views from those searches. So I just keep plugging away trying to find good ones. I think one of the hardest things to figure out one Etsy is what people are searching for.

I will use some different chainmaille spellings in my titles and tags and see what happens.

I appreciate your help Alex, thank you.

[SeverinMetals]

Hi Amy, have you thought about using tags for your target market? maybe tags such as: rocker jewelry, punk rock ring, teen jewelry, heavy metal ring, gothic jewelry.

[Former_Member]

amy, you are only using half the space in your titles. You get 140 characters.
There is room in there for 5-8 good keywords.

dont worry so much what someone might type, call it what it is every way there is to call it.
use synonyms.

if the search is over 500 items, and you only have that phrase in a tag, its useless.

i like knotted steel ring. makes you relevant for steel ring as well.

[BlackCatStudio98]

Thanks for your reply Anna, I appreciate it. :) I've used rocker and teenager quite a bit, but I don't get searches from them, which really surprises me. Maybe I need to try teen instead of teenager. I haven't used punk, and have only used goth a little because I didn't know if those terms described my items. But maybe they do? I've thought about heavy metal, but I didn't know if people would use that term. I'm going to try it and see what happens.

I just can't seem to find what people are searching for in regards to my items. Don't get me wrong, I have found search terms that work for me, but I'm trying to find more so I can increase my views and sales. I added the word urban to some of my listings thinking that would be a good one, but so far no views at all for that. So either people aren't searching under the word urban much, or my jewelry isn't what they have in mind when they do, or my photos aren't good enough to make them click. It's hard to know which one it is.

Is there an app that tells you how many times a day certain keywords were typed into search? I'm sure there isn't, but I wish there were.

[SeverinMetals]

Amy, I think it's difficult for customers to find what they're searching for as well!

[BlackCatStudio98]

Lol, that's true Anna, I've been there myself!

[Former_Member]

Popularity is a very important factor on both Etsy and Google.

Shops with listings that have current daily sales continue to appear on the first page of Etsy Relevancy searches as well as every page after the first page for very popular keywords. I have tested this over and over again on Etsy for the past few years and always see this pattern.

Popularity is less of a factor when using long tail keyword phrases that are not as popular and for which there is less competition. It is easy to rank well for keywords that are not popular and rarely used in searches.

Etsy does not reveal how often each keyword is used in Etsy searches. Google's Keyword Planner does show the average number of monthly searches for each keyword on Google. This search count is an excellent way to find keywords that are also popular in Etsy searches - people do tend to use the same keywords over and over again.

[Former_Member]

Etsy does filter out hearts/favorites that come from Promotions on Teams. Just like Google filters out Link Spam that is generated to artificially inflate popularity in Google searches.

The people who write the search engine algorithms are very intelligent and know how to block "false" popularity.

[Former_Member]

It is more likely that people who sell a lot will rank higher in more searches because they are relevant for many more terms than those with few sales.
I have mostly ooak listings that start with all zeros. But, many of those are relevant for 50+ search terms. Many newer stores are relevant for less than 5.
And, since higher sales shops list more, are relevant for more terms, usually have better pics ( which gets them search clicks) it is expected that these shops should crowd the early pages of any given search.

"wood" , "cross" and "mosaic" are always high traffic words for me, though they are huge, and my items are new.

if popularity is a factor, it is weak and easily overcome by ooak sellers by force of numbers

[notesfromtheattic]

Amy, for a jewelry shop that has been opened for less than a year, I think you are doing pretty well. Some really good advice here. The pinterest thing takes time…..so does twitter. I thought pinterest was a waste of time for a year…then in year 2, I got more views and items re-pinned to other boards more frequently. It's free exposure and as in everything else, persistence pays off. There are many layers to search and it takes time to grasp it all. Good luck to you.

[Former_Member]

This is one of the most sober discussions of search I have read.

I can add an unproven observation and a link some readers may have missed that ranks the 6000 most popular search terms on Etsy at some point last summer.

The observation is that when I move an item to the top left corner of page one (not even into the featured four slots, if you use them), it's search results shary prove--for a while. Try it, please, and verify or debunk my observation.

Here is the Etsy top keyword list at moment in time last year. You may have seen it. The first sixty or so are tied and are therefore in alphabetical order. They it gets interesting. I expect you'll find, as I did, that the vast majority of words are useless because (a) it is clear the term is not being used for what you sell (e.g. They are trolling for gold scrap) or (b) the term is so widely used (10K) as to be worthless.

This strongly suggests that the real action is in keyword that make precise matches for uncommon searches or which helps to differentiate an item in your favor--when it should.

Remember, Google reaches so many people that a rare keyword combination may still see 50 searches a day.

Because there is so much competition in jewelry, my own response would be to make things intended appeal to thinly sliced demographics. As a middle-aged person, I must constantly adjust to the fact that many people want items that just feel too new for me to carry.

One more bit: keep track of whether your buyers are shoppers or other sellers who admire you work. They are not the same people.

I have to post this, retrieve the link I promised, return, and post it. Sec...

[Former_Member]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AolshBDEESofdENCeE0yNmxYcWlFUnl1SGxTLX...

This is an off-Etsy site of, if I remember correctly, one of Etsy's bloggers. It's a Google Docs site, which kind of shows it's age, since Docs is now called Drive.

Chew and swallow.

Ben
Scrappy Puppy

[Former_Member]

Just updated my listings with backlinks and few of them with very popular Cross Bracelet keyword. I'll see if it helps.

Thank you for the great advice!

[Former_Member]

ben, i think that spreadsheet is something else. maybe search ad prices.

I doubt whether bolo, chinoiserie, gocco and file cabinet are the most searched words here.

[Former_Member]

Yes, Alex, you're correct, it is search prices, but it was presented as being equivalent to keyword popularity. You raise valid points, though, and I will see if I can clarify it.

I think using the best ideas you have, then seeing how they perform, is a better use of one's time. The fine art of refining.

One thing about having a shop like mine, selling in many categories, is you discover certain narrow categories that draw a lot of traffic and favoriting, and which may cost $12--but no one buys it. No matter, maybe they'll buy something else.

I would guess that in a tasteful, crochet shop using mostly earth tones, a bright, super-colorful pair of socks might have the same effect. Moreover, such items are treasury bait.

Ben
Scrappy Puppy

[BlackCatStudio98]

alex from woodenaht says:

amy, you are only using half the space in your titles. You get 140 characters.
There is room in there for 5-8 good keywords.

dont worry so much what someone might type, call it what it is every way there is to call it.
use synonyms.

if the search is over 500 items, and you only have that phrase in a tag, its useless.

i like knotted steel ring. makes you relevant for steel ring as well.

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I didn't see this when you first posted it Alex. Thank you, I finally get what you're saying. I was afraid of long titles from reading about google liking short titles and not using the same word more than once in a title or it was keyword stuffing and was considered spam. So I would write a short title and then use my extra tags for whatever else I could think of and hope that someone might combine a couple of them and the search would be narrow enough that my items would show up. That's why I didn't have all of my tags in my titles. But I think that google stuff is myth and I've been changing my titles to include more keywords.

I haven't seen many changes yet, but I'm still working on it. What you said makes sense to me and I think I will see an increase in views and hopefully sales. I still need to find the right keywords, but I guess that's what it's all about. Tweaking and more tweaking. :)

[Former_Member]

Changing keywords will not change Relevancy or the rankings of listings in Etsy Relevancy search results. Etsy primarily shows popular listings in the first few pages of search results, listings with high current repeat sales and Favorites or shop with high repeat sales. The more popular your listings become, the higher up they will appear in Etsy search results.

A few listings from newer and smaller shops are shown high up in the search results but are only kept there if they start selling very well.

You should keep your good keywords that worked for you in the beginning and research to find more good goods to add to each listing. Do some keyword research using a free keyword research tool such as Google Adwords Keyword Planner to find more good keywords.

You can create a title of any length for Etsy searches and not worry about Google. Etsy creates a listing title for Google that is a shorter length using about the first 70 characters of the listing title.

[BlackCatStudio98]

Thank you so much Denise! I'm actually pretty happy with my sales especially considering that I don't get that many views. But the plan is to get more views and of course hopefully more sales. :)

Thank you for posting that doc again Ben. I found a few keywords on there that apply to jewelry. I get what you're saying as far as using narrow searches. There is of course less competition and maybe more chance someone will buy an item that matches their narrowly defined search. However I don't feel like I get enough views from the narrow searches. I think most buyers search in broad terms more often than not, so it would be nice to be found in as broad of searches as possible. What it boils down to I think is to include broad and narrow searches in every title. The narrow searches are the ones I'm struggling with. They require more creativity. :)

[BlackCatStudio98]

I get what you're saying Mary. That's what I'm doing is keeping my original keywords, the ones that worked that is, and then I'm trying to add more so that I can be found under more searches.

There is a lot of misinformation out there. The 70 character google title is one of them. I had read in more than one place that titles should not be longer than 70 characters in order to rank with google, but in reality the google title is just shorter and is 70 characters, but your title can still be the allowed 140 characters.

But Mary I still don't know what to do once an item moves down the ranks. How are you supposed to get it back to page one? It's a vicious circle. If an item has to be seen to sell and it has to sell to be seen then how is that going to work? And like Alex said, how is that supposed to pertain to OOAK items?

I can try google adwords again. I've tried it a couple of times and didn't get much useful information beyond what I already know. Silver bracelet has lots of searches, edgy bracelet not very many. I don't show up in a search for silver bracelet so that is no use to me. Edgy jewelry gets me views, but not enough.So that leaves trying to figure out what to use to get seen which is where I'm stuck.

I sound like I'm whining, but I'm not. :)