The downward spiral

[Former_Member]

I wanted to share this email that I sent to Etsy customer service. It took me quite a few minutes to even be able to find a link to contact Etsy--one of the "updates" is to make contacting them nearly impossible, apparently. They may close my shop because I don't support the stuffing of shareholder pockets with money from sales of Chinese sweatshop items that are undercutting our artisan sales, but I wanted to let you know that what is happening to you is happening to us all.

Here's my email:

Hello. Recently I ordered a credit card reader. It arrived in very attractive packaging and was generally very impressive. HOWEVER, since Easy has been allowing CHINESE MANUFACTURERS TO SELL NON-HANDMADE items on Etsy for 1/4 of the price, my sales and those of everyone on my teams have gone to absolutely non-existent on Etsy. Instead of selling items on almost a daily basis, I'm lucky if I have 3 product sales in a month, and it's been that way since last Spring. We could argue that this is because of my lack of marketing and you could suggest that I beg to be included on your blog or join more teams or make more treasuries, except that I market on Google, Ravelry, Square, Pinterest, Craftsy, and Patternfish, have my own website and 3 blogs, have a FB page, a Twitter page, and an Instagram page, and I attend fiber festivals throughout the Southeastern U.S. The only place that no longer generates sales is Etsy. It's such a shame that you have taken a good thing (i.e. bringing handcrafted made-in-america artistry to an eager international market) and polluted it with cheap, Chinese-made garbage from, probably, sweatshop companies that violate human rights 12 ways to Sunday to boost your bank accounts. That's not what I and my company stand for. That's not what I or any other Etsy artisan support.

Please tell me how I may return this card reader to you, as I think that, given Etsy's focus on their bottom line instead of ours, I'm going to have to close down my shop at the end of the year. I can't generate enough sales on Etsy to cover my monthly bill, so I don't think I'm going to have any use for this product after all.

Thank you.

[Former_Member]

*applause*

[Former_Member]

I hear you. And you've stated the case well. Cynic that I am, though, I doubt if anyone is listening. :-(

Personally I refuse to buy anything from Chinese sellers on Etsy, and I remind everyone I know who shops here that not everything is handmade anymore, so they can check for themselves.

But I don't think anyone who matters cares. Ebay used to be a fun place to shop, now it's a hellhole. *sigh*

[Former_Member]

I will not get a card reader. For one thing, I do not have a smartphone (guess what? Not everyone has one nor do they want one!)

Two, Etsy controls enough of my money as it is. I refuse to allow them one more bit of control. If I get a card reader, it'll be through Square or PayPal.

I can barely pay my bills here anymore. My sales for November are abysmal. Normally, I am slammed already - I'm sitting on my rear end right now, waiting for bacon to thaw so I can take food to our pastor (knee replacement).

If it's true, and Etsy got themselves penalized by Google for bad backlinks, that's their own fault. They allowed it to happen, and it's hurting a lot of long time sellers here - people I know who have been Featured Sellers are doing poorly.

[ArcaneArtiste]

I wonder if there's some way we could as a whole bring this to the Etsy team's attention. It's definitely an issue and it's hurting all of us.

[Former_Member]

I noticed a lot of the Chinese made goods also and it is a bit annoying. Koodos for speaking up.

[Former_Member]

I am British but still make handmade goods, and yes it is galling to see mass produced items versus unique handmade items. I am disappointed that Etsy has gone this way as it used to be so cool and I haven't even been on here long!
I am looking into other avenues but I haven't quiet cracked the other markets to be able to leave Etsy and make a go of it else where.
It would be nice if Etsy listened and went back to what it was Unique handmade and vintage.

[kzannoart]

You said a mouthful and it's all true. I wish they would clean house of all the crap. I mean REALLY ...

[WilliamsGiftshop]

Amen!

(Apart from you mentioning that Etsy is for US artists.... I'm Dutch, living in Belgium and have been selling here since a year after Etsy was founded.)

[NataBurgos]

Well Etsy has shops from all around the world, I am colombian, but I have bought items from Japan, the US and I have seen MANY beautiful shops with wonderful handmade goods from Israel, Australia, Argentina, the UK, Ukraine, and so on.
It's a shame to find mass produced stuff here, every now and then I find some of this and it's not that fun.

[Plektra]

I'm also based in the UK. Keya, what you said sounds fine to me. These issues are posted in the Forums almost on a daily basis. A lot of sellers are frustrated. There is definitely a different direction the site is taking and it is not pleasant. I have started downsizing my shop and time will tell what I'll do. I also need to change direction.

Bad back links? Would these spam back links from scraper sites directing to your shop? Or websites calling themselves 'search engines'?

Now that's another huge problem here as these sites generate income from our photos and listings.

[Former_Member]

very true, what you said.
my november is horrible so far, no sales yet. the only reason i´m not too worried is that i will sell at an offline event towards the end of the month and i hope to do well there.
i have started to ignore the obvious non handmade items and i only buy from shops that i can tell they handmake their stuff. i think i do have quite a skill by now in distinguishing what´s really handmade and what not.
of course that´s only me and there are millions of other buyers out there but i do whatever i can

[heartsabustin]

Minerva, I gathered that these are sites that people pay to create "backlinks" to their shops to increase their ranking on Google. This is what I saw as being why Google penalized Etsy - Etsy has to get rid of the backlinks, and Google's penalties last up to nine months. So, every single time I start gaining ground in my shops from Etsy's last penalty, they get a new one because of what Google sees as spam backlinks.

I think I read the other thread properly, and I think that's what I gleaned from it. Someone can feel free to correct me if I misinterpreted what I read.

[Plektra]

Well in a way that's what scraper sites do. They take bucket loads of listings from a site that has a public API, create a website and make money from selling ads space or perhaps make money from clicks.

So they are telling you, I'm advertising you for free because I have a link to your shop. I'm guessing the penalty is related to this, if not wholly then definitely partially. Those links direct to your shop. You never asked for this service and yet you are in a way paying for it because the site is making money from your work.

[heartsabustin]

I'm sure that's probably part of it, as well. I understand that it's hard to get rid of all those links for all these shops. However, if they spent more time trying to do things here at Etsy that would actually help us instead of playing Website Design 101 with our shops, it'd be awesome.

Shipping calculator, anyone? We've been asking for one for years.

[Former_Member]

Hoo boy, yeah, lack of shipping calculator is incredibly dumb. It's not like the technology isn't there ... seeing as how eBay had it, oh, I dunno, 15 years ago ...

[ViaLove]

Fabulous comments--all of them. I have truly enjoyed this insightful discussion. I see now why my sales have gone from 3-5 a day to 1 a week. :-((

Makes me sick to my stomach that this is happening.

I SO WISH some competitor would come along and start an identical shop to Etsy, and the 'true' artisans would all leave Etsy and go to this competitor, leaving Etsy with junk sellers.

[maydaylabels]

I have not noticed, honestly, a huge increase in the categories I follow (clothing, supplies (which were always fine for manufacturers anyway)) since Etsy changed the definition of handmade - I think they were always allowing a lot of these sort of large manufacturers (often from China but there were some US ones as well) and just decided to finally be open about it.

In some cases it bothers me; they do have the power to overwhelm a search as they've got so many products (because of having so many employees).

The price difference doesn't bother me, though - a lot of people here who are truly handmade charge waaaaaaaaaaay less for their time than they'd need to if they were running a business to support themselves; I can't blame the Chinese for charging less just because the cost of living is so low there, and labor so cheap.

Also, a lot of people here are making pretty basic things with factory-made components (this is not just charm on a chain but also simple clothing from mass-produced cotton, etc.) - can I be angry that Etsy allows sellers to use cheap, mass-manufactured supplies? I dunno. Is it really any better to buy a necklace made from a Chinese charm and a Chinese chain from a US seller than from a Chinese factory? Maybe marginally, if you're American, sure - support your own country and etc. But I don't know if there's much more to it.

OP's shop looks really nice, but maybe you should consider that it is not an influx of Chinese sellers that have doomed you (how many of them are selling hand-dyed alpaca yarn, really?) and instead increased competition from there and other places means you need to constantly be improving your shop. Your tags and titles need work. Your tags don't match your titles in all cases (meaning you have wasted titles), and you have a fair number of repetitive and single word tags.

[Former_Member]

I've read this thread and I've looked at various stores. Some of you are going up against a lot of competition and need to set yourselves apart. No only are you competing with large manufacturing but you are competing with other shops and alot of them. However you offer very popular items. From a buyers point of view,not just a seller, I look at the attitude of the shop owner, customer service first and for most. If you don't offer top notch customer service, I go elsewhere. This is how small shops have always competed against large mega firms.

Those of you who have a niche market who have very little competition, consider yourselves lucky. Mark my words, there will be a larger firm come along and start marketing your stuff soon cheaper, and faster.

Good Luck to you all. You aren't crazy, I'm seeing this across the web. There are changes to how google, yahoo, bing searches. A good SEO is very important. You do need to set your shop and items a part. More than that, get your store out there, to bring views back into your shop. That's all you can do. Don't look at it day to day or even month to month cycle, a full year business cycle is the only way to truly determine if you are loosing money. Then you can make decisions.

Good luck and take care.

[Former_Member]

Y'all are great for responding. I've done a good bit of research and have found an artisan market place that is exactly what Etsy used to be. I've opened a shop, and I encourage you to do it too. No listing fees is also a great sell for this market place. It's called Zibbet.com.

And for you UK sellers, there is a UK version of Etsy. It's called Folksy.

[Plektra]

I know about Folksy, thanks!

Quite a few sellers on Etsy closed their shop here and moved to Zibbet. Some of them closed their shop there after a while too. No listing fees?? I would check very carefully the next site. Perhaps the forums can give you some idea or ask other sellers who have a shop there. Also check if they have public API.

[PamsPawsJewelry]

Wow, this has some good info.!

I agree with Keya!

I opened my shop originally in 2011 and could not sell due to the recession and many of us out of work. I closed it.

I reopened my shop in Feb. of this year and have only sold 11 items since then!

I wanted this to be a way to earn a living or at least a second job but it is impossible to sell on here!

All this stuff about SEO, titles, tags, "getting your shop noticed" does not work that I can tell.

I have tried everything and still no one comes on here from off of Etsy and not too many shops seem to buy from each other, I do when I can.

Even with good titles and tags if Etsy is being penalized by search engines then we will not be found.

Too bad we could not all write to these search engines and get them to not penalize all of us for Etsy! Etsy should fix some of these problems and I have asked them to just fix things in my shop like an icon to get to my shop directly and they ignore us.

I don't know what backlinks are, I keep hearing about it but wish someone would explain it.

If we all could sell stuff Etsy would make more money too. I don't understand it.

When I talk to people I know many have not heard of Etsy or don't think to shop on it.

I also recently read a whole lot of bad reviews about Etsy, basically people had bad luck with some shops that were not honest and did not provide good customer service and Etsy itself did nothing or could not be contacted!

Etsy needs to somehow promote all of us off and on, these front pages and trending threads are very biased and have all the same stuff on them all the time! I hear they won't post one of a kind items and that is what most handmade shops have a lot of! Or Vintage, so what that leaves is what, manufactured items?

Thanks for the letter and all the info. It is time to try and find another marketplace to sell on also.

Blessings to everyone and I am hoping we all get some sales soon,

Pam

[maydaylabels]

There is no evidence that Etsy is being penalized by Google. That is just an idea someone had.

You don't pay Etsy listing fees to be featured on the FP or in Trending; I would never count on those views or hope for them. We get a very very small percentage of views from the FP even now, and almost never anything from Trending.

There is a lot of competition on Etsy, though significantly less than on the wider internet; you must make your shop absolutely as good in every aspect as you can if you want sales. There are thousands of sellers selling very similar items, esp. if you are in one of the big categories (jewelry, clothing, kids' things, printables, etc.)

If sales are not going as you want, the first thing to do is decide what to improve first. Things can always be improved.

[Mollymoojewels]

Keya, just been having a look at Zibbet. Anyone else using this new site?Does anyone know if it's a world wide site or just for the US? I can't seem to find the info on the site.

[pasqueflower]

I have also had a HUGE drop in sales over the past year since Etsy changed policies. I tried Craft Is Art for several months with no sales. I'm concerned that Zibbet has fewer than 50,000 members, but it was refreshing to see that Zibbet feels more like the "old" Etsy. Zibbet is FAR more visually appealing to shoppers and sellers!! But given my bad experience with Craft Is Art, I've decided to stay on Etsy awhile longer, hoping for an uptick this holiday season.

Frustrating as the Etsy changes have been for most of us, the fact is, Etsy still generates the most traffic. They still hold the biggest market share. They have more name recognition than the other sites. Half a loaf may be better than none.

Ananemone Labels - congrats! Glad you are thriving now, and I wish you continued success. But I predict one day SOON some third world or Chinese manufacturer will rip off your label designs, undercut your prices, and you will be in the same boat as many other Etsy sellers -- and despite your strong track record, Etsy will do absolutely NOTHING about it.

I use the Report Seller link every time I encounter an OBVIOUSLY mass-produced, cheaply-made, underpriced item, but to no avail. If those cheap trinkets sell, Etsy doesn't care whether they were made in a sweatshop or stolen by an unscrupulous factory worker to supplement lousy wages. They are so obsessed with the bottom line, they have abandoned the principles that built their market share.

Discerning shoppers will come to realize the "new" Etsy has become more and more like eBay, but with a visually unappealing, colorless front page and design changes that frustrate both buyers and sellers to the point where many would be ready to abandon ship if only there was a life boat in sight.

Etsy is trending far, far away from its handmade marketplace roots - where it was once possible to find high quality handmade items without wading through pages of cheap factory-made rip-offs.

Your advice about titles and tags may be helpful to some. Thank you for that.
But, with all due respect, you are not a HANDMADE seller. You have not walked in our shoes. You profit from the "simple" clothing sellers you mock, many of whom (U.S. sellers) have been forced to simplify designs to stay CAPSIA compliant (essentially, no buttons on children's clothing without manufacturer certification, which is cost prohibitive for small sellers).