Comparing the Two Candidates

[#1]

http://2012.candidate-comparison.org/?compare=Romney&vs=Obama

[ManicManx]

LocoBead says

"Health care is not the same as health insurance. Everyone in the U.S. - including those illegally in the U.S. -- is guaranteed access to basic health care. Under a 1968 federal law, all patients seeking care in hospital emergency rooms must be given a minimum level of treatment, regardless of their ability to pay or health insurance


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We are not entitled to basic health care in this country. If we were, the emergency rooms wouldnt be filled up with people and their upper respiratory problems.

[LocoBead]

Kristi from ManicManx says

Loco. Im not lecturing you. I am asking for empathy.
We are worlds apart.
You get to go to the ER and have it covered. You get to the ER when your doctor isnt available.
**************
Covered???? With a $5000 deductible???? Are you kidding me????

I could have stiffed them...happens all the time...but, that's not how I play.

[LocoBead]

Kristi from ManicManx says

LocoBead says

"Health care is not the same as health insurance. Everyone in the U.S. - including those illegally in the U.S. -- is guaranteed access to basic health care. Under a 1968 federal law, all patients seeking care in hospital emergency rooms must be given a minimum level of treatment, regardless of their ability to pay or health insurance


---------------------------

We are not entitled to basic health care in this country. If we were, the emergency rooms wouldnt be filled up with people and their upper respiratory problems.

************
That's a federal law, Kristi.

[ManicManx]

Yes. Covered. Your bill could have easily been twenty grand and you would have only had to pay five.
What the federal law says and what happens in real life are two entirely different things. I think you live in a bubble.
What part of "You get to see a doctor, we dont" Do you not understand?

[SerenaSmithLampwork]

i'm beginning to think we really don't have a health care problem in this country. we have a fine example of what we should do as good citizens right here in this thread.

even if we have insurance, let's all just go to the emergency room. after all, it's free and all our health care needs are guaranteed to be covered.

[LocoBead]

I had a dear friend who recently died from cancer. It was about the 6th time she had battled one form or another. She had qualified as indigent, even though she had a home and some money...I think it was in an IRA, not sure. She got the best treatment available...at MD Anderson. So, I do know it's available. Whether one wants to take the time and initiative to seek the programs they qualify for is part of the big problem. Waiting until cancer has progressed to the point that it is no longer treatable won't magically disappear, even with good coverage.

The Mayo Clinic recently diagnosed the nephew of a friend of mine with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. He's 17...local doctors (parents have no insurance) said he was suffering from depression and wrote prescriptions. They managed to get into some programs that covered the entire $9000 for his sessions at Mayo...and a little extra for travel expense.

Oh...one other thing. Under Obamacare, insurance companies are required to give rebates to groups when health care costs fall under 80% of premiums. They are allowed 20% admin costs. So...knowing that our expense to the insurance company was minimal, I contacted our agent when we were notified that we would not receive a rebate. They finagled it so we're in an area that had high claims...our group didn't, but the area did. Now that's rich. Humana gets over $60000/year from our little group...only 1 individual, 1 family and 2 employee with kids. Nobody else wants to pay for it...and the only reason I carry it is for catastrophic episodes, as one never knows.

[ManicManx]

Waiting until cancer has progressed to the point that it is no longer treatable won't magically disappear, even with good coverage.

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True. What I am talking about is people who DONT have access to a diagnosis or treatment.
Im assuming that at 17 your friend had his parents advocating for him. Yes. Some people get help. Far too many of us cant or if we do, its way beyond basic health care that we have a right to but cant get.

[SerenaSmithLampwork]

what is the health care that we are talking about, anyway? basic health care? what is that?

i don't think i'll be going to the ER for my next gyno exam, for instance. i don't think they do that in emergency rooms. but, i'd say that's basic health care, no?

[ManicManx]

As I said... .

I dont see basic health care as the thing that patches you back up after its too late.
Again. No one is asking for free. We are asking for affordable.
We are asking the right wing to stop passing laws that shut down the few places where the low income have access to basic health care.

[SerenaSmithLampwork]

maybe calling them "emergency rooms" is a misnomer.

maybe they should just be called "free health clinics" since that is what the republicans think they are.

just go to the hospital and look for the big red "EMERGENCY" sign to find the free health clinic and get your yearly pap smear.

[ManicManx]

The richest country in the world.



Sigh.

[LocoBead]

Kristi from ManicManx says
........Im assuming that at 17 your friend had his parents advocating for him.
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Oh, yes, he does have parents...mom is morbidly obese and dad is a quadriplegic.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-city/index.ssf/2012/02/new_oregon_city_health_clinic.html

http://www.portlandonthecheap.com/healthcare_healthcare.html

http://www.ci.pasadena.ca.us/publichealth/AECCS/

[ManicManx]

Thanks for the link, Loco. I will have to check them out. Im excited about the possibility of affordable dental care. Im not sure if that service like the rest of them are for HIV positive patients. Im not HIV positive so I probably dont qualify for help there.
Im curious. I asked if your friend had parents advocating for him. You mentioned that one was morbidly obese and the other was a quadriplegic. Did you point that out to suggest that they werent advocating for him?
My question was did he have parents that were advocating for him. Not how much did his parents weigh.

[Former_Member]

Sorry Kristi, but loco's story of "a nephew of a friend of hers" clearly negates your life experiences.

[ManicManx]

LOL

[Former_Member]

The Mayo Clinic recently diagnosed the nephew of a friend of mine with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. He's 17...local doctors (parents have no insurance) said he was suffering from depression and wrote prescriptions. They managed to get into some programs that covered the entire $9000 for his sessions at Mayo...and a little extra for travel expense


---i'm taking an educated guess at this, but tell me if i'm incorrect...

the young man's condition rose to the level of 'crisis' or 'life threatening' in that he probably attempted suicide once if not more than that during his lifetime. also, if he had been treated consistently by a mental health professional in the beginning when his parents saw indication of something being wrong - which is usually not included in that 'er' care until they are in the hospital threatening self or others, or have attempted suicide/done physical harm to self - he would have not ever qualified for a program such as you describe nor been given a 'free ride' to enter. Has he been entered into a study?

[Former_Member]

http://planetthrive.com/2010/01/mayo-clinic-recruiting-cfsfms-patients-for-amygdala-retraining-study...

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01046370


saw that the study concluded in May 2011 - when did he receive treatment from the clinic?

now i know it says you have to be 18 - how close to that is the nephew?

[LocoBead]

crazybeads from crazybeads says

---i'm taking an educated guess at this, but tell me if i'm incorrect...

the young man's condition rose to the level of 'crisis' or 'life threatening' in that he probably attempted suicide once if not more than that during his lifetime.

**********
No...as I stated, they had been seeking local medical attention for him. But, as with so many cases, medical professionals seem to gravitate toward easy solutions, here's a pill...you have...depression, ADD, etc. This attitude has nothing to do with whether one has a gold plated insurance plan or is on medicaid. They had been trying to get him into Mayo for some time.

The young man is 17...he just recently (like this month) went to Mayo for examination and diagnosis. He is home, and currently being treated...which, as I understand, involves retraining the brain and body...pushing one's limits past the point where you want to stop and rest. I did not mention previously, but this young man was adopted. His "mother" went to China to adopt him.

Kristi, I pointed out the parents' circumstances because it shows they do not have an easy life. They face obstacles daily, but managed to find assistance.

[Former_Member]

was there finally an opening at mayo or did he reach crisis level?

[SerenaSmithLampwork]

everybody can find one story of one person or one family where everything worked out, or everything was supposed to be all right, where they did everything right and the system failed them.

to say "look at my friend, he figured it out so what are you complaining about?" is ridiculous and just shows tunnel vision.

it's about the system as a whole. which is failing many, and costing all of us way more in money and inadequate health care, not to mention not living up to the principles we live by - or at least espouse - in this country.

[LocoBead]

There was an opening, Crazy.

[ManicManx]

My point is that your seventeen year old boy in question had two parents to advocate for him. Not everyone has that. Peoples situations vary. Levels of health vary. My friend who died of cancer had no one advocating for him and no one to help him. The only time he had an advocate was when it was too late and he was dying in a hospice.
Our friend in the same group did not die of cancer. She had insurance through her employer and had her friends and her lover taking care of her.
Its access to treatment that will save your life. Its access to basic health care and tests that diagnose a problem. Its access to treatments that prevent the problem from becoming life threatening. Its lack of access to those things that cause people to end up in the ER using resources that didnt need to be used if they could get treated in the first place.

[Former_Member]

i'm assuming that in order for him to even be considered, his disorder must have reached such a level that he would qualify as Mayo doesn't tend to take the mild or even moderate cases, correct?

[ManicManx]

LocoBead says

There was an opening, Crazy.
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Its great that this teen got into a trial clinic and got help. This is not a satisfactory approach to gaining access to basic health care for all of the under served people.
Again. He had two parents who were trying for years to get help for him. It shouldnt have been that hard. Can you imagine if you were in his kind of condition and on your own? Thats how you end up in the street and on your way to jail.

[ManicManx]

I wasted my time asking if you could imagine.
You cant. There is a lack of empathy here. Ive got mine, my teenaged friends parents got theirs.
Problem solved. The uninsured have no complaints. Must be because they are lazy.
Did I get that right? Or do we go back to the idea that the value of your life amounts to the money you make or the job you have?
Or is it Life has gotten more unfair and I am going to do my damned best to keep it going that way.