Insurance Option

[ColorShiftStudio]

Is it now possible or are there any plans to have an insurance upgrade for buyers to select during checkout? I am currently offering this by changing the listing manually for customers who opt to include insurance.

[Former_Member]

Erica Heftmann from colorshiftyarn says:

Is it now possible or are there any plans to have an insurance upgrade for buyers to select during checkout? I am currently offering this by changing the listing manually for customers who opt to include insurance.

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Hi Erica,

Thanks for your post. At this time, it is not possible to offer buyers an insurance option via calculated shipping. We know that this might be important to some sellers and hope to address it in future versions.

[ColorShiftStudio]

Special thanks, Mike. Almost no one reads or heeds my shipping policy and adds insurance. Having something posted on the shipping policy tab is not the same as truly informing the buyer. I do email them after purchase and repeat that they assume liability unless they pay for insurance. This is a time-consuming step and I doubt that anyone reads the information even then. If a parcel is lost, it is no longer a fine-print issue. If it is something they have in front of them while checking out, it will make a better impression.

[ColorShiftStudio]

Just wanted to add about whether or not it is important to sellers. If their shipments are over the automatically covered USPS amounts, they will not find out if this is important until it is too late!
I have been sending out hundreds and hundreds of uninsured parcels with no problem. My first lost parcel is a misery. Even though my policy states that the buyer assumes the loss, I think it is too cruel to enforce, so I am paying the $350 for the loss. Who wants to lose that from a paycheck?
Because this is a rare occurrence, people don't think about it, but should, both sellers and buyers . . . and especially Etsy.
I recommend getting the idea out there during checkout as an upgrade option and trying to make this change soon.

[CraftSupplyHouse]

Erica, I wouldn't even give the buyer in option in those cases. Automatically adding insurance via the handling fee is probably the safest route for now. Unfortunately, you'd have to over charge for US or under charge for international (since the handling fee is a set amount). One thing we've found useful is to choose the option to charge commercial rates and then buy postage online. The difference for international postage often covers the insurance cost. It doesn't work as well for domestic postage, though (the difference is too small to cover insurance). It is a little less out of pocket, though.

[Former_Member]

Erica Heftmann from colorshiftyarn says:

Just wanted to add about whether or not it is important to sellers. If their shipments are over the automatically covered USPS amounts, they will not find out if this is important until it is too late!
I have been sending out hundreds and hundreds of uninsured parcels with no problem. My first lost parcel is a misery. Even though my policy states that the buyer assumes the loss, I think it is too cruel to enforce, so I am paying the $350 for the loss. Who wants to lose that from a paycheck?
Because this is a rare occurrence, people don't think about it, but should, both sellers and buyers . . . and especially Etsy.
I recommend getting the idea out there during checkout as an upgrade option and trying to make this change soon.

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Hi Erica,

Thanks very much for sharing this feedback. We appreciate hearing about your experiences with insurance and will definitely keep it in mind as we continue our work, here.

[JessesVintage]

For now, I have been adding the cost of insurance to my item price, but I only insure items over $25 USD... all others I self insure so if something is lost in the mail or is damaged I just have to pay that amount...

It would be nice though to have the option for the buyer to purchase insurance on items, or have it available for the seller via the listing manager... and if using upic or the postal system insurance... I know that Mike has already commented on this, but I'm just adding that I too think Insurance is an integral part of shipping and needs to be addressed...

[PaperCreationsbyDeb]

I'm not understanding having a buyer purchase insurance.

We, the sellers, are responsible for packages we send out and must decide to either self insure or add commercial insurance when we ship.

Buyers have nothing to do with this and never have been responsible for insurance.

One further note: If your buyer doesn't purchase insurance as you request them to and the package gets lost, who do you think will be held responsible for refunding the buyer or replacing the lost item?

I strongly suggest you check with your payment processors about this as they are definitely one voice in their answers.

[ColorShiftStudio]

Where are you finding the "fact" that "Buyers have nothing to do with this and never have been responsible for insurance."
Once the parcel leaves the seller, how can the seller be responsible for it? Why would insurance be optional if it is the seller's sole responsibility?
Good idea to check with the credit card company.

[ColorShiftStudio]

Thank you CraftSupplyHouse for your input. I am going through my listings and adding the cost of insurance. This really hikes up the shipping costs. I'll see if this drives people away.
Thank you, too, Deb, for suggesting that we see what the credit card company and/or PayPal will do to compensate the buyer.
By the way, I checked with Stamps.com about the case of disputed delivery confirmation, when the buyer says the item was not delivered and USPS claims it was. As I understand it, their underwriter is the same as Endicia's, so these claims are evaluated on a case-by-case basis and are paid after they have investigated with the buyer and are satisfied that the claim is not fraudulent. So, the buyer must participate, as with damage claims.

[CraftSupplyHouse]

Erica, I believe if you buy labels through Etsy, and add on the U-Pic insurance, they cover if the buyer claims it didn't arrive even if it's marked delivered (at least that's what I've read...luckily I haven't had to test it yet). From what I understand, both the buyer and seller have to sign an affidavit that the package was truly lost.

[JessesVintage]

Craft - That is correct and Upic is only 75 cents in the USA for up to $50... so much cheaper than USPS option...

[ColorShiftStudio]

Great info! As I understand it, U-Pic is the underwriter for Stamps.com, so same policy.
Where I live, parcels are frequently misdelivered. Another option is to require a signature. I have had some customers request that I ship with that option because they live in areas where parcels are stolen.
The actual reimbursement is just part of the picture. There is a lot of time spent with the customer and the carrier in chasing down details. And then, my husband has to hear the whole story several times over, so he gets cranky with someone else, who in turn... Life can be a Rube Goldberg contraption.

[ThePapers]

Insurance is for the seller, not the buyer. If an item is not received or is received damage, contractually, the seller is at "fault" and the buyer must be made "whole".

The buyer makes a contract with the seller, the seller makes a contract with the carrier. If the carrier doesn't deliver or damages the item, then the dispute is between the seller and the carrier and the seller is obligated to return the buyers money or replacement item. It's not a matter of store policy - it's contract law and PayPal/DC/Credit Card will always side with the buyer no matter the insurance or lack of it.

When I order online, I am never asked to insure my packages against loss or damage, I expect Amazon/Adidas/Whomever to make good on whatever I paid for.

Etsy should not offer insurance to the buyers and already offers it to the sellers.

[custompetandtack]

I don't see the need to have an option for a buyer to buy insurance. If you ship Priority, it's included. As mentioned insurance is for a seller's protection incase of damage or loss.

If you mail items using Priority and print labels with Paypal, you get $50 worth of insurance included in that Priority price.

If you print using Etsy labels, you get $100 worth of insurance included.

It doesn't cost any extra to put insurance on a Priority package since it is now included in the price.

So as long as you mail with Priority, your package is insured for your protection incase it does get damaged or lost.

I also self-insure packages I mail 1st class, I usually add a little more to the weight so if several items are bought I can add that .75 U-PIC insurance.

[CraftSupplyHouse]

Pat, one thing to remember about USPS insurance is that if they mark the item delivered, but it's not delivered to the right place, they consider their job done and you're out of luck if you try to claim insurance. U-Pic doesn't take that stand. They will pay out the insurance if the buyer and seller fill out the affidavit that the item was not properly delivered. For expensive shipments (even less then $50 or $100), I don't even consider it insured unless I buy U-Pic insurance.

[vintageNCtreasures]

I know filing a claim for a lost package with USPS that shows delivered is another thing, they won't cover it because to them, it is not lost, it's delivered.

But Paypal and DC will side with the seller if a package shows delivered even if the buyer said they didn't get it.

I don't always print my postage from Etsy, only when someone uses DC to pay. If they use Paypal to pay I print their postage through Paypal.

[CraftSupplyHouse]

I usually only print through Etsy when I am sending international, flat rate/regional rate, or want to insure. It's true that Paypal and Etsy will side with a seller if the item is marked delivered, but I would want to make sure the customer got what they paid for. Of course, the two totally lost packages for me were both international and not that expensive, so I didn't insure. I just sent the customer their order again and both arrived safely the 2nd time.

[ColorShiftStudio]

The remarks from Karen and Daniel are very clear and ring true to me, very helpful. Okay, I assume all responsibility. Now it is up to me to decide if I want to self-insure to keep shipping reasonably priced for buyers or if I want to make everyone pay for the few times someone else loses a parcel?
This has been a really helpful discussion, not like many where questions are not addressed and the substance deteriorates. I am very appreciative to those folks who have taken the time and trouble to chime in.
Thank you, again, to the folks at ThePapers!
Just wanted to add that the $50 insurance included with USPS Priority doesn't cover my typical order.

[vintageNCtreasures]

I've only had maybe 5 times in 15 years where a buyer claimed they didn't get the package but USPS showed it was delivered.

And every time when I told the buyer the tracking showed it was delivered, all of them just happened find their package.

I've been lucky and never had a package totally lost, had a few that took 3-4 weeks to deliver but they've always turned up.

Only had 2 packages damaged in all this time, 1 was insured 1 was not.

[AlaiynaBSoaps]

You can always use the handling fee associated with each listing to add insurance for that item to the shipping cost to protect yourself - yes insurance is for the seller. While it may never be accurate for multiple item orders, it can help cover the cost for insurance outside of what may be included with USPS priority and up services.

Then you can use the handling fee associated with each package type to cover any typical handling costs you may incur (packaging materials, labor, etc.).

This way, you get money for insurance AND handling.

[EauPleineGarden]

I would like to add that sellers should add insurance to their articles shipping or self insure as it is the SELLERS responsibility to get the package delivered. Buyers should not be required to pay additional insurance. There are no stores selling today that ask if you want insurance added. Why? Because the Seller is responsible!

[Former_Member]

I think the calculated shipping is a much needed feature for Etsy. This is the first I have heard of this feature and I am just now joining this discussion so please forgive me if my reply may seem ignorant.
What I would like to see is Etsy develop calculated shipping for heavy shippers using UPS or FEDex as an option. I do not have one item that I ship USPS, therefore, I have to use world wide shipping software to process my shipments. I have had enough shipments that I have been able to understand shipping to different parts of the US and I have adjusted my prices accordingly. I do however refund any difference if shipping comes up less than what the customer paid for.

[ArteOfTheBooke]

I insure every single package that I mail, and the ability to add insurance through UPIC would be a necessity before I would use calculated shipping profiles.

It could be available simply as a blanket choice when you create your profiles: Add insurance for the cost of item + postage? Y/N. Then Etsy automatically adds the cost of the insurance coverage to the postage price.

[calialater]

Hi Nancy,

Thanks for the suggestion! We know that including a cost for insurance would be helpful for many sellers and it's something we're keeping in mind as we work on this feature.

Thanks,
Calia