Torch advise PLEASE!

[Former_Member]

I am hoping to spoil myself this holiday season and buy a new torch. There are SOOOOOO many options. I am honestly overwhelmed! I currently use two different sized butane ones from bed bath and beyond. They both are going out on me. Not lighting consistently etc.

I work out of my home (living room actually) so I don't have a ton of extra space. I am hoping in the future I can at least have my own room. I have learned that if I am going to buy a tool, I should buy one I really want that will last me longer, otherwise it's just a waste of money! With that said I am sort of interested in this one Monster Slayer carries (about half way down the page) that connects to 3 butane canisters.

http://www.monsterslayer.com/Pages/Torches/Torches.aspx

But I am also really interested in looking into acetylene for long term purposes. Does anyone have any advise they'd like to share with me. Ones you love, or ones you've hated and I should stay away from? Benefits/downfalls on acetylene vs butane?

Thanks in advance. You guys are always super helpful!

Carin

[cgwhitfield]

Carin, I can't help much, I use a basic plumber's propane torch, so in a minority. But everyone has their favourite, hang in, advice will come.

[JazznJewelry]

Personally, I love my Smith Lil Torch. It took a little getting used to, after using plumber's torches, Prestolites and Hokes. I can do just about anything with it. But, it does require 2 tanks, one oxygen and the other either propane or acetylene. But it's small, lightweight, and I can adjust the flame with one hand. You'll find them in almost every fine jeweler's store that does their own work or repair. With the #1 tip, I can fuse a .1 mm granule to a gnat's ass.

I absolutely hate Hokes. They're huge, difficult to adjust the flame and my hand gets tired because they're heavy. They're more suited in a welding shop.

My second choice and the one I use for doing reticulation and granulation because you can get a soft bushy flame is the Prestolite. Yes, I can fuse just one granule with a Lil Torch, but if I have to fuse a lot of granules at once, the Prestolite is my choice. It only requires one gas, no oxygen. The flame can be adjusted with one hand. It's about medium weight, but it has a weird angle on the handle part, which sometimes makes it difficult to manuever. I have a quick disconnect on my acetylene tank so I can switch between my Lil Torch and the Prestolite, but you can also use a Y manifold for the purpose of using one or the other.

Harold O'Connor always uses a Shark or Whale in his workshops. It works off a plumber's torch tank, has a hose and no problems with flameout. I've never tried it and he is a master at torch control so he makes everything look easy.

Can you find some people locally where you can sweet talk them into letting you try their torches for 10 minutes? That might help you decide, even if you don't do anything more than turn the torch on.

[Former_Member]

is it the miniflam you are looking at? The reviews of it in Lapidary Journal are pretty good, but the only butane torch I used is one of the little hand held ones.

I use a propane/oxy smith little torch, and the fact you have both oxygen and gas allows more control over the flame. I think you could get a bigger tip for a bushier flame, they come with a bunch of sizes, and I have seen somebody cast with one after switching to a gigantic tip.

Also, if you decide to go with a smith or the like, you will need to decide whether to get propane or acetylene. The main differences are: acetylene doesn't burn as clean as propane (especially if you get acetelyne-air), and one burns hotter than the other (I think it is propane).

[khmetalwork]

Katherine Palochak from JazznJewelry says

I absolutely hate Hokes. They're huge, difficult to adjust the flame and my hand gets tired because they're heavy. They're more suited in a welding shop.
-------------------
I love my Hoke; got an adaptor kit from Otto and can solder from teeny weeny to pretty big. Never had a problem with the flame or being too heavy. Had two Smith Little Torches (with all the tips, the torch holder, the this the that) got rid of all of it; too small, too fussy - quite unhappy with it.

-----------------------------------------------
It really comes down to a matter of preference, the only thing I would suggest - if you can - get a torch that uses refillable tanks over disposable - better for the environment and less expensive (look for used tanks).

Perhaps find a studio that you can rent some time - use different torches and see what feels best to you.

[bddesigns]

I use one similar to the prestolite on that page - acetylene/atmospheric oxygen (no oxygen tank) and have used that for well over 5 years with great results. Variety of sizes of tips so you can work on the biggest project and the smallest project with one torch. Wouldn't use anything else and it's not badly priced either.

[Former_Member]

I use a Smith acetylene/atmosphere, I believe the model is called the Silversmith....It is 12 years old and I have all of the tips...These are great torches. Durable, reliable, versatile. I have used this torch at nearly every school I've studied at, and have been tech in school studios that used these torches. They often need to have a tank switched out or to be reconfigured to give more access for students, but very rarely were we repairing or removing worn out parts. In a school environment, that is notable.

There sometimes are situations when you needs a tighter, hotter flame.
I would consider either the Hoke or the Little torch as a 2nd torch. They are both fine torches. I've used both of them in studio and work settings. I do have a slight preference for the little torch, but I think that's because I spent more time on that as opposed to the Hoke, but I did build 22 hinges for a neckpiece and ball wires as the hingepins with a Hoke over 2 days and didn't find it overly heavy...If anything, I find the LittleTorch to be a bit underbuilt. Either way, I would use propane, rather than acetylene, but would run a line in from my LP tanks outside instead of risking the propane tank in the house and install a valve rather than have a regulator..I still have to figure that out..Acetylene is quite clean burned with atmospheric air, but when you introduce the oxy tank it becomes unpleasantly sooty, but it is the hottest option.

I hope that helps some. Good luck!

[Former_Member]

Have any of you used a torch with disposable tanks? Since they are now recyclable and seem safer to keep inside, I'm wondering if that might be my best option. I'm thinking about one of these
http://www.riogrande.com/Product/Little-Torch-Propane-and-Oxygen-Set-for-Disposable-Tanks/500090?pos...

[UnionStudioMetals]

Hi Carin!
We use an acetylene and air torch in our studio, I've stuck with this setup because that is the torch that I learned with in school. Here's the link for the http://www.riogrande.com/Product/Smith-SilverSmith-Acetylene-and-Air-Soldering-Kit-without-Tank/5001...
Plus, where we live there is a company that sells commercial welding and medical supplies, you may have a store like this in your town too. This is where we purchase our tanks and have them filled, I wouldn't suggest ordering a tank from rio (shipping would suck), you should be able to get your tank locally for like $60ish and they may have the Smith torch setup there too. Also, when you get your torch make sure to get a good ventilation system like a bathroom fan and make sure to tie your tank to something (we use a metal chain). Our next torch will be the mini torch for smaller solder jobs but for now our torch is awesome with all sizes of torch tips. Hope that helps a bit and when in doubt, contact local jewelers and metalsmiths then go take a look at their torches and ventilation systems, if you are ever in Boise you are welcome to stop by our shop :)

[SilverspotMetalworks]

I have a Little Torch and quite like it. I'm using disposable propane and oxygen, with the plus side of being able to buy gas easily at any HD/Lowe's and the down side of tank disposal and probably greater expense over the long run. As an entry-level torch, it is nice to not have to worry about dealing with fancy regulators; you just buy the pre-set ones and you're good to go.

I use the #6 tip and happily solder projects from small pendants up to fairly heavy cuff bracelets and belt buckles.

That said, I think Katherine has the best idea - see if you can visit some studios or workshops and give their torches a test drive. You'll find what you're most comfortable with and what works best for your particular needs.

[Former_Member]

Wow where to start. I own many torches . But I looked at your work and see you are ready for a real torch. That is one with a refillable tank. You can look on ebay for deals.Make sure locally what you can get refilled and is available. the tank set up I started with is what is called an acytelyene B tank. My first torch was what is loosly labeled a plumbers torch. Uses acytylene and oxegen or air pulled into the torch from the air. The torches that will fit that tank and only acetylene are many..Smith, is the one I would choose. if buying used get one that has the adjustment up next to the top so that your thumb can adjust the flame as you go. Since a torch is the backbone of making jewelry I would not compramise with one of those screw on a little tank or the refillable torches I use those for baking....they are just to bulky to hold and are not real torches....sorry is I offended any on that. I have 5 set up torches and they include the hydro flux torch, several oxy acetylene including hoke, and smith Little Torch, and even propane,oxegen set up and my best is a micro tig welder and several tacking spot welders. But with all of that to choose from.. most of my work is built using the smith torch on an acetylene b tank that I started with 40 years ago.
email if want more. Jim

[Former_Member]

On disposable tanks - these are generally too small. Apparently, the oxygen cylinders, used with the Smith Little Torch, last about a day.

[Former_Member]

This is not a reply to any particular question posted here. It is, however, a very important and useful tip to jewelers, plumbers, welders, DIYs, and anyone who might use fuel gas from time to time, especially people who use their Prestolite torches infrequently. This can also affect gas furnaces and water heaters.

Are you having difficulty lighting your torch? Has your acetylene flame gradually become soft, bushy, yellow, sooty? You've tried adjusting the tip, and that doesn't help. You change the tip and it might get better? The other tip you tried is rarely used, and it does the same thing?

Well, you're not going to believe what the problem might be:

SPIDERS !!!! Yes, Spiders. Tiny little Red Spiders.!

Why? How?

All fuel gases, butane, propane, acetylene, MAPP, Coal gas, etc., contain an odorizing additive so you can smell it. These odorizers belong to a group of chemicals called mercaptans, and they are also found in garlic, onions, skunk scent etc. We humans will notice these because we find these odors noxious. BUT, red spiders LOVE this stuff almost like an aphrodisiac pheromone.

The ubiquitous red spiders build their nests in closed small spaces attracted by this smelly stuff. The extremely fine nest webs are also sticky not dislodged by gas flow, but will let the gas flow slowly. The net result is that the gas flow from the torch's internal orifice plate cannot effect the all important venturi effect necessary to PULL ambient air into the mixing chamber of the torch. So you end up with a soft, bushy, sooty, colder, or no flame.

It is not enough to blow your tip out with compressed air because these webs are sticky!

The solution:
Caution work in a clean, clear area on a work bench.
Instead, remove the torch tip. In the upstream end of the tip there is a fine metal mesh flame arrestor with a 1/8" hex drive. Carefully remove this with an Allen key. Under that is a small metal disc with a tiny hole hole. This is the orifice place. DO NOT LOSE THE TWO ITEMS! Visually examine these two pieces and if necessary, use a small cheap artist brush, with bristles cut to a stump, to clean and blow them out.
Next use a soft craft pipe cleaner to clean the entire bore of the tip. I have found it useful to fold the cleaner in half and twisted it again to increase its girth and stiffness while maintaining soft bristles. Make sure you've cleared all the cobwebs and re-assemble your torch.

Voila! No matter how old your Prestolite torch, like magic, your torch will be like new again.

[Former_Member]

That should read ORIFICE PLATE not place. Sorry

[Former_Member]

I have used the Little Torch for 15 years and have it on a 20lb propane tank and O2 refill tank. Recently I began working more with silver and my tips for gold are to much heat. Is the 5, 6, 7 tips better for silver? Working on bezel set pendants, rings. Any tips. I have gone back to a hand tank and large nozzle to make do. Which is do-able but a pain.

[Former_Member]

So Carin, what did you end up getting and how's it going????