Rolling mill question from newbie

[AtelierMariT]

Hi,
I'm not quite new to the team, but shy and in awe of your talent , so I never quite got the nerve to post until now.
I'm new to metalsmithing and I got a beautiful rolling mill for Christmas and I'm wondering if i'm using it right. The space for metal sheet is fairly small 5cm/2in the rest is for wire on each side.
I wanted to texture some copper sheet using some brass textured sheet I bought. I didn't anneal the copper as It was supposed to already be annealed.
I was a bit surprised by the damage done to the brass sheet, at this rate I don't think they'll last long.
Is there something I could do to preserve the textured brass ?
Thanks!

[2TrickPony]

hi marina,

firstly I would see about speaking with the maker of the brass texture plate, but I do wonder if you are pushing the metal through with the rollers too tight. ?

also, feel free to come up and post in the monthly discussions. more people will see your questions and you'll get more assistance.

[khmetalwork]

Annealing the receiving metal will help preserve the brass sheet (do not anneal the brass), but the pattern on the brass sheet will not last through too many passes thru the mill. I'd guess 3 or 4 times before the pattern is just too smushed to make a deep impression.

You don't need to buy texture sheets, play around making your own textures...the great thing about having a mill is that you're no longer limited to textures you can buy or sheet metal gauges offered by the supply sellers. Plus, you can mill your own stock..ring shank stock, bezel wire, etc...

[AtelierMariT]

Thank you for your answers,I`ll anneal the receiving sheet, but I`d better use the brass sheet as is for jewelry and like you said make my own textures.

[khmetalwork]

there is an etsy seller who sells rolling mill textures - her name is Tracy and I think her store is something like Rolling Mill Textures (hmmm, seems too easy - maybe google the name rather than slog through Etsy search). Tracy makes the textures from paper - I believe it's one use, but perhaps you could use the paper textures to make brass texture plates and then use the brass 3 or 4 times...I haven't done this, just thinking while I type.

I generally make my own texture plates by etching or using whatever I happen to find - window screen, lace, paper, leaves, etc...

[khmetalwork]

Tracy posted on Facebook this morning, here's her link

http://www.etsy.com/shop/rollingmillresource?ref=seller_info

[AtelierMariT]

Thank you very much for your help.
I've done some etching on copper using different kind of stamps and PNP paper, but not on silver yet, I'd like to try it but there is so many regulations concerning the use of precious metal in France that I'm still in the process of obtaining the hallmarks stamps that are mandatory here and until then no real use of silver for me.

[JazznJewelry]

Go to Durston.com and pick up the User's Guide. It will help you with a lot of things, including how to use padding to get a deeper impression without ruining your embossing plate. Frank and Sandra Goss wrote this a long time ago, and Durston reprinted most of their white paper.

Also consider using paper punches, such as those used in scrapbooking, to make a paper die out of card stock, file folders or various papers. Pretty patterns; what's negative space will come out shiny, and the positive (paper side) will have a texture from the paper.

Some other things you might want to try for textures: cheesecloth, other cloth, paper doilies, plastic doilies, leathery organic materials, feathers, dried leathery pine needles, various art papers and netting bags from vegetables. Once you get an idea of what does emboss and what doesn't, you'll be looking for embossing materials everywhere.

[Former_Member]

I've never bought texured brass plates, but used to make my own, etching the brass with ferric chloride, and using a paint pen as a resist and covering the backside with contact paper..information on this is available in Tim McCreight's book, The Complete Metalsmith, as well as many others.

I started with 20 ga brass instead of the much thinner stock I've seen available textured, and was able to use my plated with annealed silver or copper the same size as my etched plate almost indefinately, using a smaller recieving piece made marks in the plate and wrecked it.

I also used many of the items suggested above, especially when I was teaching about the mill, just make sure you never use metal screen or sandpaper not sanwiched between 2 pieces of metal completely, as you could injure your mill!

The only reasons I don't use these techniques now, is that I don't own a mill, and when I have access, don't tend to use it much, and with the etched plates, it was a look I used a lot for a pretty long time, but my work has evolved away from that quite a while ago, and I rely much more on simpler tools like destroyed hammers and very prcise us of my saw.

Hope that helps. Good Luck.

[JazznJewelry]

If you're going to etch into brass, make sure it's tool brass, as it is harder than red brass (rich low, Merlin's, etc.). Tool brass is a greenish yellow color.

[Former_Member]

Katherine,

Thanks for clarifying this when I started out, it was very hard to find anything but tool brass in my area! Even I use Jeweler's Bronze or Red brass somewhat regularly in my work, I view it as a Completely different animal.

Also, my apologies for the lousy typing/editing....I was laughing with my husband over this....He can type, no problems, but has lost his skills writing longhand...I usually write longhand before I hit the compter keyboard, unless it's just a quick reply....clearly my typing suffers somewhere in there...something to work on....

[PPennee]

I use Tracy's lazer cut rolling mill paper- awesome patterns, but it is low relief- I also use it for metal clay. The textutres turn out pretty, but not very pronounced on sheet even after annealing. I do love them though:)

[AtelierMariT]

Thanks for all your advices, they are very much appreciated.

I tried it by annealing the receiving sheet, and it was worked much better

I downloaded the Durston users guide, even if mine is not a Durston, the basics are the same.

Tool brass is the only one I can get here, I get it from a miniature train online company. For red brass, I have to order from the US.

I have to admit, I never thought about using paper, I just ordered some natural fiber paper sheets made in different countries. They have fantastic textures, it'll be a pity to crush them, but I'll get over it!

I'll try the leaves and all the others suggestions you've made, I'm so afraid to damage it that I'm missing on some possibilities.

[khmetalwork]

beyond running stuff thru the mill - remember to keep the rollers oiled (wipe off during use), and put a cover over the mill when not in use.

I have run screen thru the mill many times - no damage, maybe I'm just lucky...dunno.

[StoneTemple]

I used to texture annealed copper and silver with a mill at a school, I found for leaves they need to be at a leathery dry stage. Too wet and they just smoosh, too dry and they crumble. I also used various metal screens all wrinkeled up to create strong impressions but always used them in a sandwhich of brass sheets to protect the rollers; brass~annealed metal~screen~brass. This sandwhich also helped with the leaves, keeping them in place and kept moisture from the rollers.
One more tip, I bought a bunch of lace scraps to use but many of them were synthetic and just flattened without leaving an impression, only the silk and cotton laces worked for me.
Miss doing that, especially the leaves.

[JazznJewelry]

You can also etch into tool steel or cold rolled steel with ferric chloride, also electroetch, but I don't know enough about that. But if you use these etched plates, you must *always* use sandwich leaves of softer metal, like copper or brass. You can also engrave patterns into tool steel, but that's too much for me!

You can use electronic die cutters to make paper patterns, or scrapbook punches. I like using card stock or file folders (different kinds have different textures), but also brown paper grocery bags and just regular 20 lb. bond paper.

Try this: Use an X-acto blade to cut a squiggly line in brown grocery bag, and roll your metal through. As it goes through the mill, the squiggle line will separate in various ways. Another thing to try is to use some thick Contact paper or very thick clear packaging tape to tape over one side completely. Now cut lines through it with a sharp X-acto and bear down so the lines are incised. Remove some of the areas for negative relief and roll it through with some paper on top of the metal blank with the incised negative relief spaces.

Experiment with copper, brass or aluminum pieces, whichever is cheapest, to get an idea of what you like. Actually, if you have a roofing supply, you can often get rolls of thin copper for really cheap, and it works great for experiments.

Hmmm, maybe we should do a Flicker thing with photos of what people do with their rolling mill textures. If somebody wants to set it up, I'll throw up some of my samples. Sounds like a good way for us to get our creative wheels cranked up and have some fun in our down time.

[khmetalwork]

here are 3 pieces - that were made with paper & the mill

http://www.etsy.com/listing/79779355/modern-sterling-ring
http://www.etsy.com/listing/58209264/sterling-box-or-reliquary-with
http://www.etsy.com/listing/83511161/silver-locket-with-amethyst

[JazznJewelry]

I really like the locket! What kind of paper did you use to get such a deep background stippled texture?

[khmetalwork]

manilla envelope

[PinkCoyoteJewelry]

I love using cotton lace in my mill. The texture is excellent on sterling or copper. Synthetic lace doesn't work. Try it!