Help - I can't get my solder to flow when making a bezel.

[TheJewelryBlock]

I am very close to tears, but before I have a breakdown I thought I'd post here and see if anyone has any ideas of what I'm doing wrong. I am making a bezel cup using 3/16 28ga fine silver bezel wire, 24 ga sterling sheet for the back, and hard silver solder (all ordered from Rio Grande) and the Large Butane Torch (also from Rio). For some reason, when I am trying to solder my bezel wire onto the sheet backing, the solder literally will do nothing. I apply flux - I tried applying more, and I tried applying less. I tried using smaller pieces of solder and larger pieces. I got so frustrated that I literally left the torch directly in the middle of the bezel cup and the solder *still* didn't melt, much less flow.

Does anyone have suggestions for what I'm doing wrong? I have tried 5 times now, and nothing happens. The solder eventually turns black like I've burned it, but still doesn't melt. I tried moving the torch over to an extra piece of solder to see if something's wrong with it, and when I hold it directly over a piece that's away from the bezel, it goes into its little ball like its supposed to.

What the heck am I doing wrong??

[khmetalwork]

Heat sink? What are you soldering on? Tripod?

[NanceDesigns]

When things go this wrong stop. You may have caused too much oxidation on the silver if you spent too long trying. Pickle everything, dry it and with the bezel placed on the sheet hold it up to a light and see if any light is scooting under the bezel. If so sand or hammer if necessary to flatten the 2 surfaces so they fit perfectly together. Good preparation is critical. Flux. Put a circle of small chips fluxed on the inside of the bezel. Heat the sheet well and then more into the bezel taking care to not melt the bezel. Keep moving that torch to the outside to draw the heat from the inside to the outside edge. Both sides must be evenly heated. Make sure also that your torch is newly re fueled so it is working at its hottest. Good luck. We have all been there.

[DistinctivelyDharlee]

I agree that you need to make sure everything is tight fitting. Sand it until it fits completely. I think that was key for me in learning this. I also have a LOT better results with my big girl torch than with my butane one. That might just be me though.

[TheJewelryBlock]

khmetalwork - I am using a 6" solderite pad on top of a honeycomb tile on top of my wooden kitchen table. I did try moving the solderite pad into my annealing pan, and that seemed to help - at least the solder flowed! It still didn't quite flow the way I wanted it to.

Nance - I took your advice and just stopped for a while. I was way too frustrated! I had sanded the bezel before I started, but re-sanded just to make sure it didn't warp with the multiple tries to solder. I was definitely fighting the flux - it kept bubbling and moving the solder away from the joint, so I would stop for a moment and move it back with tweezers. Do you have better luck soldering bezels with a tripod and heating from the bottom? I was taught to do it from the top, but even after I got the solder to flow, it wasn't all flowing to the place I wanted it to.

Dharlee - I am terrified to get a big girl torch! Or rather, tanks of gas that could blow up my house. I'm trying with the butane, but if I end up doing lots of soldering or if I get to a point where the butane just won't cut it, I'll upgrade. I'm still very much a beginner, so I'm starting slowly :)

Thank you all for your advice!

[Former_Member]

In addition to a clean bezel with a tight-fitting joint, you'll want to make sure your SOLDER is clean too! Nine times out of 10 when I struggle getting something to solder properly, it is because something is dirty - the joint, the solder, sometimes even the flux gets dirt in it. The first thing I do is clean everything - including the solder - I just use some fine sand paper or a green scrubby pad on my solder. That usually fixes the problem.

If cleaning everything up properly doesn't resolve the issue, then looking at other things like a heat sink, flame size, etc. are the next steps.

No need to be afraid of a large torch. Having a healthy respect for it and learning proper maintenance and safety precautions are essential. I'm not comfortable with an acetylene tank in my home (which is where my studio is at the moment) so I have a propane torch which is hooked up to a small disposable tank. It works quite nicely - gives me the heat that I need with minimized risk in comparison to an acetylene b tank.

Best of luck to you!

[khmetalwork]

I've never used butane, so not really sure -but is it possible your flame is too small for the work? I know it seems completely counter intuitive, but too small of a flame is nothing but trouble - warping, melting, solder will not flow. Maybe you're boiling off the solder and there is nothing left to facilitate the solder flow.

Can you crank up the heat on your torch? If so, turn it up - you want to complete the soldering as quickly as possible without being careless or sloppy. I prefer paste flux - you can buy it or make it (grocery/hardware ingredients), cut your solder and have it ready, crank up your torch, once the flux has gone clear, place your solder with a pick and continue to heat - it should just take a second or two for the solder to flow.

[NanceDesigns]

I used the large butane and mini torch before purchasing my acetylene/ air torch. The larger projects sometimes required building charcoal blocks around like a wall to contain extra heat but 24 ga sheet isn't that heavy. Are you aware that the hottest point of your tip is about 1/4 inch in front of the sharp blue point not the big bushy flame. Use the big flame to heat everything fast and then move into the solder spot maintaining heat on both sides evenly. A charcoal block helps to keep down the oxidation build up on the metal which can be similar to dirt. Solder jumping around happens but experiment with different amounts of flux and types. If this was easy everyone would be doing it. Congratulate yourself on taking the challenge and be patient and persist. Ask rio if the torch is putting the fuel out right if it never happens right.

[NanceDesigns]

And about the tripod...I had trouble with that method with butane but now am liking it with acetylene. It is not the big answer to your problems and can be quite a juggling act with solder falling off. Soldering from underneath helps to lesson the chance of melting a delicate bezel on a large sheet. You can still prop up a piece a tiny bit with tools to get underneath if you wish to try just. Be inventive. Even steel binding wire can be coiled like jump ring springs to support things. Good luck

[DistinctivelyDharlee]

Erin I SO understand that! I couldn't set up mine for the longest time after I finally bought it lol.

Try setting your torch to the halfway point with the flame. Make sure all your metal is completely fitting and completely clean by sanding it first with a fine grit paper. Do figure eights with the bezel on the paper, and switch how your fingers are on the bezel so as not to make it crooked after a bit. Flux again and solder using the torch as I said and heat the whole piece, but don't move to torch too fast. slow and steady wins the race.

The halfway point makes a neutral flame which will be best for this. Wide open produces more of an oxidizing flame and the nearly closed area a reducing flame.

If you have a tiny torch it might not be hot enough. I have two butane torches. One is a little larger and one is much smaller. I use them both about equally but it might be that you need a bit more heat. And if you are trying to make a large bezel that might also be the problem. I find I cannot do anything much larger than a quarter with my butane torches. I know people who do, I just can't.

[PurgatoryPlaythings]

I'm having the same problem!! i can get the bezel wire seem shut very easily so the silver bezel wire i'm using I guess isn't the problem but the second I try to solder onto the backing plate that shit just will not melt and its very frustrating! I've tried even just seeing if the solder itself would melt onto the fluxed backplate but it won't?! so odd?!

[shopsandandsilver]

I'm coming back to the craft after many years of being away and haven't done a bezel recently but will be trying one soon. Someone gave me this advice awhile ago when I was trying to solder steel and it seemed obvious and I thought I was doing everything right. I had solder balling constantly because I was moving my torch around too fast. You are probably doing it right but I realized in my case I was a) moving my torch too fast around the wire. It could also be the wrong solder for the job or not enough heat.

[cgwhitfield]

Michelle, your questions may get overlooked here, the main chat thread is the best place, you'll get lots of help there with any questions.

Everything and everyone is welcome. And I'm originally from Victoria so not a complete stranger.....ha.

Silver soldering to steel brings up a number of factors like flux type. But as a basic guide, you want to heat up the piece and let the heat transfer to the solder. If the solder is balling up it has a very tiny contact patch with the steel and won't transfer heat well.