Policy Issue - Suspend and Holiday Mode.

[Asylove]

I have been producing Mosaic Turkish lamps for 35 years. I am one of the last representatives of the traditional Mosaic Turkish lamp craft.
I have been selling on Etsy for about 5 years.

My store was put on holiday mode due to the reason that it is not handmade. and my store is about to be closed. The question I want to ask is: How to produce Mosaic Turkish lamps without being handmade? Can someone explain to me exactly the concept of Handmade product?

It is impossible to produce mosaic Turkish lamps without making them by hand.

My purpose of selling on Etsy is to raise new artist students. I cannot afford the expenses of the art students I currently educate. It pains me greatly to give hope to the students I invite to classes.

This situation really makes me sad. Financial problems may occur to keep an art form alive. But isn't the purpose of Etsy established to support art and artists?

Is there anyone who can help me with this?

Kind Regards

Numan

[BootifulLabels]

Handmade on Etsy means items that are handmade BY YOU, or at the very least designed BY YOU and manufactured with the aid of a Production Partner who makes the items to your original design and ONLY FOR YOU.  You cannot sell items as Handmade which were made by other people, and you cannot sell items as handmade which you buy from a factory or workshop which sells the same items to others.

[Asylove]

This is the point where I feel sad the most. I produce it in my own workshop. I do not purchase the products in any way. Turkish Lamps are custom made for each order. There are thousands of models, it is impossible to stock

[steelhipdesign]

Etsy is dying under the weight of resellers and the bad publicity that brings.  They let the problem fester for a decade.  They are now taking action against those selling mass produced as "handmade". 

Your product may be "Etsy legal" but extremely similar lamps are mass produced in the millions and available on sites like AliExpress, Ebay, Amazon and Temu.  How is Etsy going to determine what are really "handmade" in a small business as opposed to someone who is just reselling the mass produced version?  

If I was in your position I would sit down and design something really unique in the market.  Change up the traditional design to something novel and rare.  Experiment with different shapes and exotic supplies. That would illustrate to Etsy you are making these exclusively in a small workshop.  Back that up with images of you, design sketches, your students, supplies, equipment and studio.  

It's awful that genuine "handmade" sellers get caught in the net but you must agree it will be better when cheap resellers are removed from the site and Etsy's "handmade" reputation is repaired.  

[TwiLdCapitHog]

Sadly I feel Etsy is only interested in "being seen" to take action against re-sellers. 

If its a small shop with sales in the hundreds the item will most likely be removed and the shop maybe put on vacation. But if it's a large shop with sales in the thousands, they may take a listing down or completely turn a blind eye. 

[steelhipdesign]

@TwiLdCapitHog 

On the contrary.  I'm currently lurking in a "get rich quick dropshipping on Etsy" forum.  Every second comment is "Etsy shut me down".  Once their identity credentials are banned they can't return.  The only way back is using someone else's identity but there are very few friends/family who would be willing to have tax, debt and legal liability over a business they don't control.  Most "run out of friends".  

There will always be some getting through the net.  At the moment those in the forum and discussing how they should "warm up accounts" and are using AI to strip the background on photos (lifted from AliExpress source) so a Google image search won't find the original.  Even that isn't working for them.  The organisers of the forum are just draining money from their delusional minions.  

[bradgoodell]

@steelhipdesign  Thank you, you've given me hope.  I'm glad to hear that people are being shut down regularly.  

Unfortunately, Etsy has a cockroach infestation.  The cockroaches who advertising various Etsy get-rich-quick schemes are breeding new sellers faster that Etsy can keep up.  

[TwiLdCapitHog]

@steelhipdesign 

Thank you for sharing, that’s very interesting.

My post related to my own experience. I have repeatedly reported a couple of re-sellers from different parts of the UK, who happen to be selling the exact same item. I have provided links to their wholesaler’s website, where they also sell this item to the general public, and the wholesalers bio which states they are Fairtrade importers who distribute throughout the UK and Europe. And I have provided links to the other sellers corresponding listing on Etsy.

Both these shops have large inventories across a multitude of categories. One boasts 8000 product lines in their “About Section”. And sales in the thousands.

Not only do the reported listings not get taken down, the algorithm favours them for free shipping and high shop sales number, so they are permanently on the top of first pages in search for those items.

It is disheartening! And it is a waste of the time spent reporting them.  

[Asylove]

I wish my store was open I would like to show it to you. Many of the photos of our workshop and production were in my store. Yes, many people produce these products in mass production. but ultimately produces it handmade. tries to meet customers' demands. If I cannot sell the lamps I produce online, wholesalers buy them from me and sell them at 3 times more expensive prices.

[CraftyCornishMaids]

You need to handmake them or design them yourself,

If other artists are making them, it violates the handmade policy - they need to sell in their own shops.

there was another Turkish ceramics artist a few weeks ago, who said they had let other sellers use their pictures, and they sometimes made items for them, if they were too busy themselves,

That is an absolute no-no here, they can be sold on other venues, but not here

[Asylove]

This is one of the things I regret the most. I design all my products myself. I take all the photos myself. I even took the time to take photography training. If I had broken a particular rule, I would know about it. I'm really hurt

[howtobooksandmore]

Financial problems may occur to keep an art form alive. But isn't the purpose of Etsy established to support art and artists?

No it isn't.  Just as you are having financial problems teaching students you currently have, Etsy would have trouble supporting the number of sellers they have if they didn't charge what they needed to charge to make a profit.  Etsy was established to make money, not support artists.  If you keep that in mind, a lot of things make more sense concerning what Etsy does and doesn't do.  Etsy is only protecting their reputation for handmade when they put your shop on vacation and made the accusation that your items are not handmade.

I would look at Amazon, ebay, Temu, Shein and other websites to see if your photos have been stolen.  The bots frequently compare your photos to those websites and if they find any, they assume you were the one who stole them and take your items down.  To combat this, have the photos removed from the other websites and replace your photos with new ones so they don't show on the other websites.

[JDTotesnDolls]

Your photos may have been stolen.  Do a search for them.  If you find them on other sites you do not sell on. issue a DMCA to the host to have the photos removed.  When you appeal, inform Etsy that you had photos stolen.

The other issue may be the size of your business.  Etsy is designed for small manufacturers.  One or two person shops with a small workforce of maybe around 10 to 20 people,  When a business is larger than this the business may not quite qualify for selling on Etsy.  This is really something Etsy needs to answer.

Also all the members of your business need to be listed in the about page.  Everyone who works on making the lamps.  I see a list but is that everyone?

Your best bet now would be to form an appeal that answers the concerns Etsy has over the handmade nature.  

And just to add I think what is said above may be playing a role here.  If you are making designs that are also of commercial origin, you may have come up against that.   Sad to say, you may have to demonstrate that your lamps set you apart from the commercial items available.

Best wishes.

[Asylove]

Thank you for your explanation. When I look, I see that my photos have been stolen by a different seller. It even uses photos of many people in different categories. I will definitely raise an objection. Thank you for your good wishes

[PoochandTabby]

@JDTotesnDolls

Is there really a limit on the number of employees a business on Etsy can have? I've not seen that info laid out in the policies. I know of some popular shops that employ over 15 people in production alone, not to mention all the other roles of customer service, shipping, etc., and operate stand alone website and a brick and mortar store.

I've always wondering about shop size and think that at a certain point, they shouldn't be on Etsy, but I've seen nothing in the rules about it.