Infringement Scam!! Multiple shops hit

[Crossmetalworks]

I have almost 200 listings that have been deactivated due to fraudulent "infringement" by [REMOVED]. Multiple steel cutting shops are saying the same thing. I've lost almost $15,000 in the last few days and cannot even get an email reply from Etsy legal to resolve THEIR issue. THEY'VE DONE THIS TO MULTIPLE SHOPS because of some random, obviously fake website that made a claim with NO BACKUP OR PROOF, with almost zero history online, no copyright filings, and nothing registered, a fake link, and a 1.7 out of 100 rating on scam detector. SOMEONE PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Marmalady]

Etsy cannot do anything -- they have to act within their legal obligations.

If they receive a copyright / trademark infringement notice, they legally have to remove the items.
It is upto the seller concerned to argue the case with the issuer of the notice

Etsy cannot and do not investigate the rights and wrongs of the  case

Doesn't matter how many shops have received similar notices, nor how many potential sales you have lost -- that is not Etsy's concern.

First thing you need to do is file a counterclaim --the company will then have 10 days to start legal proceedings or you can relist your items

(note you can only counterclaim if it is a copyright infringement, not for trademarks)

If your loss is as great as you say, you may wish to get a lawyer involved on your behalf --but against the claiming company, not Etsy.

[audreytherese]

Etsy is doing what they are legally required to do based on the report they got. They will not ask for or look at proof from either side.

If you can prove that kind of loss of business, then you should definitely be speaking with an attorney about this. Even without that my suggestion would be to speak with an attorney. If there are that many shops being hit then you can discuss class action with them. 

[Crossmetalworks]

This makes absolutely zero sense. So basically, any person, anywhere, can claim that they have rights to my listings and Etsy deactivates them without any investigation or even a single shred of proof that the "plaintiff" even has a copyright or registration???? Does that sound completely insane or is it just me???? What if I just decided to do that constantly all day every day to any shop I want?? That freaking insanity. What if someone starts targeting multiple Etsy shops, tens or hundreds per day at Christmas time??? This is completely nuts. Now Etsy is saying the plaintiff has 10 days to reply, in which I'll be losing average of 6k per day for 10 more days totaling my loss in sales upwards of 75K. I'll begin working on my own website tomorrow. If this happens at Christmas I could lose 200k. This idiocy of this policy is ENORMOUS. 

[EccentricHandbags]

That is exactly right.  Anyone can make a claim against anyone else and the listing will be removed.  It is guilty til proven innocent.  It isn't Etsy.  The law is written in such a way that they have to do this if they receive a claim.  

[nineteen27]

they can file on any site you sell on.

including your own website.

[DragonflyDreams1]

The law was designed so that people could place their work on the internet and have protection from others stealing it. Everyone seems to forget that just because it is on the internet doesn't mean it is free to take. I am not saying that happened in this instance, but it is a warning to make sure anything you are using for your designs MUST state it is FREE. If it doesn't state it is FREE to use, it is your responsibility to locate the owner and pay for the use.

[CupLocker]

Etsy has opened themselves up to this which can literally be solved by asking the shop owner to provide any patent, or copyright paperwork during verification of shop to prevent these mafia style take downs by a grudge full entity. 

[audreytherese]

"Etsy has opened themselves up to this which can literally be solved by asking the shop owner to provide any patent, or copyright paperwork during verification of shop to prevent these mafia style take downs by a grudge full entity." 

Your suggestion opens them up to all sorts of problems. It's not just easily solved as so many seem to believe. 

Etsy would need to hire teams to verify the information submitted. Then they have a liability if someone submitted forged information and they approve it.

It's not going to happen. 

[CortenStore]

I have the same thing right now. Some dishonest fake shops stole my pictures (which I did in Poland by the way) put them on his website and reported my offers to Etsy.

When it happened before I was able to submitt a counter notice. Now, with the Etsy rules that are changed - as u non-US seller I do not have such an option! 

That is insane and so so frustrating. Have anyone experienced the same situation?

[Crossmetalworks]

And when you say Etsy can't do anything, THEY can deactivate 200 of my listings and multiple other large scale shops with zero proof, then they can allow us to turn them back on.  Don't say they can't DO anything, they already did, THEY decided this policy, THEY deactivated hundreds of listings with ZERO proof to do so. If they "CAN'T DO ANYTHING" then do NOTHING on both sides, don't cause my shop to collapse, make the plaintiff prove it in court. This is INSANELY one sided. Etsy can shut down my shop, that's doing something, but they can't turn it back on, that's doing nothing. 

[nineteen27]

etsy did not decide the policy.

it is the law.

[cindylouwho2]

@Crossmetalworks time to lawyer up. If these claims are not valid, it should be pretty easy to prove. One quick letter should do it. What is their actual claim? 

I had 2 fake takedowns in my other shop a few years back. They took down tons of listings from other shops as well, but Etsy did reinstate everything by the end of the day. The scammer claimed trademark but submitted irrelevant copyright links as evidence, and they used the name of an Etsy app developer. That developer confirmed he wasn't involved, and all the listings were reactivated. So I do understand your frustration.

[DragonflyDreams1]

I think you should take a step back and read up on the law that allowed them to file the takedowns. (I think it is the DMCA) Then it would be best for you to research the content of the designs that were taken down. I can understand your anger, but unless you paid for all of the components of all of the designs, they could be valid filings. Did you pay for all of the fonts? Was it a license or purchase? Even free fonts are NOT free for commercial use. I can download a font and use it for fun, or a letter, or one t-shirt for myself to wear. MOST fonts are not free to use commercially. Maybe the person who filed bought the sole rights to some component, etc.

Etsy cannot legally put your listings back unless you counter-file. If you counter-file then it has to be settled in court. The 10 days are there to allow the originator time to file in court to sue you.

[audreytherese]

DragonflyDreams1 - this part of your comment is not correct. 

"If you counter-file then it has to be settled in court."

It doesn't have to be settled in court. It doesn't have to go to court at all. 

When you counter it means the party issuing the takedowns has 10 business days to take you to court, but if they don't then you can relist the items. 

[DragonflyDreams1]

@audreytherese Edited..

"If you counter-file then it has to be settled in court. The 10 days are there to allow the originator time to file in court to sue you."

[cindylouwho2]

@DragonflyDreams1 DMCA only covers copyright; you can't counterclaim for trademark or other IP. It's not clear what the OP is dealing with here, so we can't possibly give them legal advice like this. 

[DragonflyDreams1]

@cindylouwho2 If you look at my post I was talking about DMCA specifically and if it was DMCA. Logically that volume of takedown (unless they had 200 disney designs for example) would make more sense. And I guess I assume if a store has 200 disney designs (for example) that were removed they would know better than to post about it in a public forum. 

I will say I have certainly learned one thing from the forums today, unless it is technically explained there is always someone who will find a phrasing and twist it.

[cindylouwho2]

@DragonflyDreams1 You said "I think you should take a step back and read up on the law that allowed them to file the takedowns. (I think it is the DMCA)" but we do not know that. That would only be one option. 

Often in these threads, the OP confuses copyright with trademark and patent etc. so unless we have actual wording from the takedown notice, we should not be mention what laws they need to understand. 

The only accurate advice in this thread is to get proper legal advice, as the OP does not provide us with anything else to go on. 

[nineteen27]

you are not listening.

and you need to calm down.

these sellers are not causing the problems for you.

and neither is etsy.

the law says that the people who file do not need to prove anything.

and that is because they are signing a legal document saying *under penalty of perjury* they are telling the truth.

and that the copyrighted designs belongs to them.

you can hire an attorney and sue the person who filed the claim against you.

that is what i would do.

but you need to be 900000000000000000000000% sure that the designs are copyrighted to you.

[CortenStore]

and what if the party who does it is a fake webiste with no contact information? Who should I address my claim to?

Also, as a non US seller I am not able to submit a counter notice. And I see pictures of my offer on some fake websites what is so frustrating. 

By such a policy Etsy favors dishonest businesses unortunately.

[KKbraceletsandmore]

Here is the link to Etsy's IP policy:

https://www.etsy.com/legal/ip

[PaintingIdeas]

@nineteen27 I doubt we're in a Banana Republic where people just can do whatever they want. My question to @cindylouwho2 can a small seller could go to their local court and sue Etsy for this fraudulent infringement? Now to win you need to prove your design was published before whoever claimed the copyright. Now @Crossmetalworks were you told who claimed this copyright? If not maybe it's a bot and appeal. If still they don't, try small claim court near you and if sellers does this now Etsy may be careful and investigate the claims. Etsy may count on Sellers feeling overwhelmed and not fighting back.

Otherwise we just need another UK seller victim of fake infringment to contact the BBC? Remenber all the sellers bullied into a 75% reserve, was reduced to 30% for everybody including US sellers when an UK Seller went to cry to the BBC!  All of a sudden Etsy stopped it's banana republic business. Enough is enough! 

[cindylouwho2]

@PaintingIdeas a seller's ability to sue Etsy would depend on the jurisdiction, whether or not they opted out of the arbitration clause, and many other factors. 

If this is truly a scammer, then it should be pretty easy to convince Etsy of the fact, but a lawyer might be useful as well. We simply don't have enough info from the OP (including the type of infringement) to provide any more help than that. 

[DragonflyDreams1]

No. By taking down the listings Etsy is COMPLYING with the law.