If Etsy going to use AI and image search to remove listings for violations...

[PristinityJewelry]

If Etsy going to use AI and image search (bots) to remove listings for violations...

...they should remove no more than they have staff to (promptly) handle the reviewing of, and re-instatement of listings removed in error.

It feels like this is getting out of hand. So many are a shops' best sellers (and livelihoods).  Legit shops losing Star Seller status, holds on funds, or closing shops completely.

[Hertfordweaver]

I wonder if AI gets smarter with its own experiences and learns from its errors. I'll admit, I'm not techy, in fact I have an image of what AI looks like in my mind.

[DesertChains]

Only if there are sufficient, competent people to provide ongoing training through confirming or rejecting findings.

[CuriousityShop]

Etsy doesn't want to pay real people.

[weekendjewelry1]

Oh boy do I not think we should count on that. This is a disaster waiting to happen (even more often, I mean). And that's not even mentioning the new listing format deadline of June 25, and hoping it works as advertised... yeah, got my fingers crossed, a lot... 

[DesertChains]

Currently, there seems to be a high false positive rate, victimizing many innocent sellers.

[LBclothingStudio]

I agree.  The internet is rampant with stolen pics from legitimate handmade shops.

[bradgoodell]

Just want to say, AI and bots are not the same thing.  Etsy is using bots for take-downs.  I do not believe they are using AI.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/difference-between-ai-bots-mfoniso-essien

[Hertfordweaver]

@bradgoodell 

Yes, I thought they were the same. Thanks for the link.

So. AI can train bots. Scary.

[BagmakerSupply]

Excellent link by @bradgoodell but both bots and AI need to be "taught" when they make mistakes and that requires human intervention. If the bot's instructions are: take a listing image, do a reverse image search on sites x, y, and z, and if there is a match flag the listing then it is just doing its job. It is the instructions given to the bot by a human that is the problem. Obviously Etsy is not sharing its formula with us, but one would think that a single flagging would not trigger a deactivation (unless the shop is newer than x days for example), or unless it flagged five listings or 10% of a shop's listings. etc. But Etsy does seem to take a better safe than sorry attitude and most likely has made an intentional decision to deactivate immediately and deal with false positives later. The question is whether or not anyone is adjusting the bot's instructions based on lessons learned from false positives.

[callistesvintage]

Totally agree 100%, because once they take it down, it seems it takes a bit to recover once they put it up.  So unfair. 

[nineteen27]

etsy needs to start over with the bots.

instead of removing handmade items...

because the images are found somewhere else on the internet.

they need to just focus on the multiple *handmade* shops...

who are using the same *handmade* images as each other on etsy.

that should never happen.

and then they move on from there.

like maybe...

removing the p*nis images from reviews.

they should not even allow mature shops to have image reviews.

and definitely not videos.

and then they move on from there...

weapons...alcohol...drugs...counterfeits.

all of which are sold on etsy right this minute.

and they can go back to the handmade listings with images in other places later.

but.

should sellers be scared because someone pinned their image on pinterest?

a blog?

buzzfeed?

their own website?

i do hope everyone has their own website or sells somewhere else.

i say that a lot... but it is so true.

[audreytherese]

I'm too exhausted to create another site online, but luckily I do well at my live events. This weekend I brought in 2 of my best months' worth of Etsy revenue at one 5-hour event. Unfortunately, I only do that well at very themed events, which only come around every so often. If I could do that every weekend I could quit Etsy, quit my full-time job, and just do that, but even then I wouldn't, because that would be similar to relying solely on here. All it would take is one accident and me getting hurt (which happens often because I'm a klutz) to where I couldn't do one for a few weeks or months and I'd be SOL. Just like the shops that rely on here and their sales fall off a cliff. 

Point being, I agree, never rely on one source. 

[thewoollydog]

...should sellers be scared because someone pinned their image on their own website?...

This is something I was thinking about as I'm in the middle of sorting out a website and I'd wondered if that was the reason there were so many wrong take downs of handmade on etsy at the moment.  

[Rubycrazycrystals]

They should be able to see which photo is the oldest. We can see that with a standard photo search. It’s strange to me as this shouldn’t happen. The biggest seller is not always the original. I know many big companies steal independent designers work. Unfortunately 

[BagmakerSupply]

@Rubycrazycrystals: "They should be able to see which photo is the oldest." Unfortunately image metadata is one of the easiest things to fake, and the data embedded in a web site's image may not match that of the original uploaded image. For example, all of our images have copyright information embedded in them but Etsy strips that out when they "process" the image.

[MichaelVermeij]

I think anything is better than leaving it to the responsible employees at Etsy. They can't seem to even figure out how to type in the word "Snickers" and delete a zillion results in one click, apparently. So maybe AI will do a little bit better at HQ? Let us pray...

[cindylouwho2]

Funny how they said they were going to do deindexing then human reviews on handmade flags -  instead of full takedowns - but I rarely hear about this happening: https://community.etsy.com/t5/Announcements/An-update-on-how-we-re-keeping-Etsy-special/m-p/14345600... Usually I hear about permanent removal, in some cases so obviously wrong there cannot possibly have been a properly-trained human involved. 

Small businesses have indeed been destroyed by this, but Etsy's C-suite does not care about the human beings they are making their multi-million pay cheques off of. The top brass aren't at risk of defaulting on their own mortgages, after all. 

[NancyQstudio]

Yep, again the slogan "Keep E-commerce Human" used by Etsy is offensive.  They do anything but this. 

[JMOldeVintage]

From the announcement link -  "As we test this new process, we’ll also be working to add more transparency to let sellers know if their listings have been temporarily removed from search for review." 

Apparently this test was/is regarding the removal of a listing from search only, with a human review anticipated within 24 hours, 48 hours max. 

Did the test fail? Is the test like so many others, attached to a user account & so far the "participating shops" have yet to have a listing flagged?
The tech work required to add transparency is taking longer than planned? 

I think I'm beginning to see double-talk in way too many things. Think I'll go get another cup of coffee & then search for some kit kats that come with ketchup, lol. 

[PWOriginals]

Etsy's takedown protocol: You'll be considered guilty until you can prove your innocence.

All while the low-hanging fruit remains unscathed.

[ArkansasMineralsLLC]

I got a warning message yesterday warning me to not use stock photos???? I go above and beyond to take unique photos for my best mineral specimens.....ai algo assumed they were stock??? If that triggers my shop to be hidden from view, or as it warned, for my shop to be closed/losing star seller status etc.....then my shop would be potentially ruined/heavily affected sales. This is part of my family's livelihood and seems to be a lawsuit in the making for shop's losing organic momentum because of flawed algorithmic system due to flawed coding. It really falls on the engineers/coders that etsy has for their algo development team. Get on it etsy. Ebay's ai algorithym is far superior (as of now).

[Girlfriendnecklace]

Absolutely scary, I'm not investing as much like before in  Etsy they shouldn't be allowed to cancel a seller unless of a court order.

[CraftyCornishMaids]

all platforms can cancel a seller account, not just etsy, Amazon is very rampant with it.

just like we can close our account and walk away.

to get court orders, for the numbers they close, especially for international issues, then it would never happen, resellers would stay here for ever

[AnniebelloPaper]

Perhaps it's time for the bots/AI to go back to basics. It would take a couple of lines of code to put 'handmade' + well-known TMs with huge licensing costs together. Instant takedown of possibly millions of counterfeit products without touching the vintage items. A simple check of when the photo was uploaded to Etsy and when it was uploaded to the 'other' site should help with the takedowns of legit handmade whose photos have been stolen. It also shouldn't be too hard to match the same photos being used by many different sellers right here. Sometimes a search puts them literally side-by-side on the search page with the same titles and descriptions. Seriously not rocket science.

This alone won't stop the problem but it would go a long way in cleaning up the marketplace.