Etsy needs to do better with policing fraudulent listings

[TheWhiskeyWorkshopCo]

The niche that my store operates in (whiskey barrel furniture) has recently become inundated with fraudulent listings.  I've come across listings that have stolen either my or my legitimate competitions' imagery and product descriptions and listed their items at ridiculously low prices.  I've seen clones of my products that sell for $1k+ listed for less than $100.  You can't even ship the items for less than $200 due to their bulk.  What I am most concerned about is Etsy's inaction to remove these items and ban the sellers.  I've reported these items to Etsy as fraudulent and they reman listed weeks later.  To add insult to injury, I see ads for the fraudulent items pop up in my Facebook feed.  Etsy is running offsite ads for items that have been reported as fraudulent! 

I completely understand how difficult it is to police all the items that get listed on Etsy.  However, the technology exists to verify that one seller does not steal an image from another seller for their fraudulent listing.   Further, Etsy needs to be more responsive to reports of fraudulent items and take action quicker.  Your creditability is being undermined and you are going to lose consumers' trust.  

Please do better!

[nineteen27]

technology exists to verify that one seller does not steal an image from another seller

you are the one who needs to fill out the legal paperwork...

to have your images removed.

https://www.etsy.com/ipreporting

[TheWhiskeyWorkshopCo]

Already done it.  That's my point.  Etsy is slow to react.

[TheWhiskeyWorkshopCo]

I should also add that Etsy customer support informed me that the proper method to report such instances is by reporting the listing.  Not doing the whole IP infringement rigmarole.  

[PristinityJewelry]

@TheWhiskeyWorkshopCo 

"...Already done it.  That's my point.  Etsy is slow to react ..."

"...Not doing the whole IP infringement rigmarole...."

Well, did you, or didn't you?  Which is it?  If you didn't, there is nothing Etsy can legally do.

https://www.etsy.com/ipreporting

[PristinityJewelry]

"... I've come across listings that have stolen either my or my legitimate competitions' imagery..."

If another seller is using your images, you must file a notice of copyright infringement. It's a more formal, legal document. Just "reporting" it won't do the trick.

"... I've seen clones of my products that sell for $1k+ listed for less than $100..."

"Clones" or similar items themselves are not illegal, unless they infringe on a copyrighted design. If customers are receiving their orders, seemingly satisfied and are not leaving the seller too many bad reviews, than there isn't much of anything for an Etsy to do. It's just competition? Soon enough, selling sites remove those underperforming sellers. But it takes time, and a poor track record of/by the seller.

"... To add insult to injury, I see ads for the fraudulent items pop up in my Facebook feed...."

Ads on the internet are targeted, based on your own browsing history.  If you click on a lot of "whiskey barrel" products for sale, then you will be shown a lot of ads with those type products.

"...the technology exists to verify that one seller does not steal an image from another seller for their fraudulent listing...."

Perhaps, but maybe not. "AI" or "image search" is unable to determine which listing (or photo) is fraudulent, or to whom the photo rights belong to. Thus far, it is unable to determine fraudulent versus legit usage. It is being tried. But the result has been, just as many legit photos/listings are being removed as illegitimate ones. Ultimately, it is up to the copyright owner to file appropriate legal notices, and police their usage.

[TheWhiskeyWorkshopCo]

Let me clarify what I mean by clones.  They take my exact images, my exact description, and list it as their own product.  They sell these clones at a price that is below what it even costs to ship the item.  For example, one is a whiskey barrel that has been turned into a liquor cabinet.  They weigh about 145 lbs and ship via LTL freight.  One listing in particular was listed for $45 with free shipping coming from the UK!  I sincerely hope buyers are smart enough to to know that this simply isn't possible.  What's at the heart of my concern is how slow Etsy is to respond to such issues after they have been reported.

[PristinityJewelry]

"...One listing in particular was listed for $45 with free shipping coming from the UK!...my concern is how slow Etsy is to respond to such issues after they have been reported..."

But unless it is a dissatisfied, paying customer filing a "case", Etsy is unlikely to respond or react.  A competitior simply firing off an email about a listing they think is illegit, won't work.  There would be to too many unscrupulous sellers trying to get their competitiors' listings removed, legit ones or otherwise.

"...They take my exact images..."

Did you use Etsy's "portal" for filing for copyright infringement (images)?

https://www.etsy.com/ipreporting

I've done it many times, and the images have been removed in 24 hours.

[TheWhiskeyWorkshopCo]

In a chat with Etsy support, they informed me that I should simply report the listing.  Not do the whole IP infringement process.

[bohemians]

It sounds like Etsy first level support might be misunderstanding your issue. There have been a few forum posts that mentioned getting incorrect information or direction from them.

If it is a case of infringement - Etsy cannot just take down the listing at your request or report. Overly competitive or scammy sellers could easily take advantage of this.

Filing a DMCA is a legal process. Etsy has no choice but to act if the infringer is a seller here. If your work is being featured on another site than Etsy - there is nothing Etsy can do - I believe you would need to file the proper legal take-down notice with the entity hosting the  fake products.

Edited to add .... I see you've already filed. Best of luck getting it sorted out quickly.

[PrimFun]

@TheWhiskeyWorkshopCo   then that is IP infringement and you need to report it through the portal.

The clones is not the issue.  Etsy can do nothing about that.

What they can do is take down the photos and listings if you have supplied the proper information via the IP portal.  If the DMCA is not file correctly, Etsy will do nothing.

It can take as little as 24 hours to 48 or more depending on what the staff is dealing with. 

What is your definition of slowness?  If you are expecting quick action that doesn't happen here or anyplace else really.  The wheels take time.

[BunnyRabbitToys]

I have a similar problem.  My designs for my rabbit hay feeders are being copied by overseas sellers, and sold on etsy for half what i charge.   Etsy told me to file an infringement claim but when i do, they say since i dont have a “patent”on my design there is nothing they will do.  If i was able to afford patents i wouldnt be selling on etsy!   Etsy told me to contact the other sellers and ask them to not copy my work.  Ha!  I tried that and they just laughed at me.  Since the other sellers are in lithuania and etsy wont remove them they are basically running me out of business by making knock off copies of all my designs and selling them to the Usa for cheaper than i can even build them.   Every time i create something new i have about a month tops before they steal the idea and build their own copy.  Its just awful. 

[PrimFun]

Have you checked with the Copyright Office or Patent Office what it would cost and if they can even be submitted?  That would be the start.  If you can register the items then you will have the means to protect the items.

At this point you can only do a DMCA for using your photos or description word for word. 

Rabbit Hutch Patents and Patent Applications (Class 119/483) - Justia Patents Search

[nineteen27]

In a chat with Etsy support, they informed me that I should simply report the listing.  Not do the whole IP infringement process.

etsy support is 100% wrong.

you HAVE to file a DMCA take-down notice.

there are legalities involved here.

such as filing under the penalty of perjury.

and you need to file the DMCA take-down notice.

to have your images removed legally.

and etsy does that in less than 24 hours most of the time.

[TheWhiskeyWorkshopCo]

Okay.  Just filed it.  Clock is ticking.

[bradgoodell]

If you filed the DMCA correctly, Etsy acts immediately, usually within 24 hours.  

Good luck, I'm sorry this has happened to you.  

[TheWhiskeyWorkshopCo]

I should clarify that these listings are not simply trying to undercut me and copy my designs.  They are listing products that they never intend to ship.  Their intention is to rip off customers.  These scammers are targeting high $$$ items, cloning them, taking sales at ridiculously low prices, and then never shipping the item.  Once Etsy catches on they take the money and run. This practice is something that I would think would be of concern to all of us that sell on Etsy since it undermines the credibility of the marketplace.  

[CoquetteBath]

yeah that happens.

again, it isn't your issue to resolve. Their thievery is theirs to manage. BUT, if you think buyers are going to hold YOU to task for it...could be.

I'd be proactive, were I you. Not only filing the DMCA on all listings/photo theft you can (and you have to protect your assets...ain't Etsy's job to do that for you)

there's a whole host of unscrupulous folks out there.

[nineteen27]

i think most of us understand what you are saying.

but just telling etsy that certain sellers are frauds will most likely end up with etsy doing nothing.

otherwise... competitors can just click on report the shop and tell etsy that you are a fraud shop and that all of your reviews are fake.

there has to be legal consequences for people who fraudulently report shops.

and there has to be proof they are scamming buyers.

and etsy puts new shops on reserves so they cannot just take 100% of the money and run anymore.

the only thing you can legally do... is file for the takedown of the images they are stealing that belong to you.

[PrimFun]

If these sellers are not on Etsy then there is nothing Etsy can do about them.

How do you know these other sellers won't deliver or are making cheap knock offs?  And other countries can sell their items cheaper than those in the US.

All you can really do is file the DMCA to have your information removed.  You cannot stop the others from selling their products.

[JosephinePainting]

First of all, I think it's tiring to see sellers bring up legit issues that are obvious shady and have other forum members jump all over them with "no it's not etsy's fault, no you did this wrong, no you shouldn't even try, not you didn't file paperwork number 12445r32 section 8 to properly protect yourself."

Like, this person is an actual handmade seller trying to protect people from getting scammed, and obviously annoyed that someone is stealing his photography!  I've seen more courtesy and patience in replies to POD sellers who are stealing AI images and re-sellers listing alibi express jewelry.   

[nineteen27]

at least this seller listened and filed the proper legal way to have the images removed.

otherwise etsy is NOT going to do anything to help this seller.

i spend way too much time here trying to help people.

99.9% of the time... it is a thankless way to spend my time.

but i still try.

[JosephinePainting]

Yes for sure.  I think often we misplace our frustrations.  I'm so annoyed with etsy at the moment that I should be getting my butt off the forums before I end up ranting like a lunatic.  

[TheWhiskeyWorkshopCo]

If these sellers are not on Etsy then there is nothing Etsy can do about them.

They are selling on Etsy.  I don't know where you possibly came up with the idea that they weren't.  I clearly said they were.

How do you know these other sellers won't deliver or are making cheap knock offs? And other countries can sell their items cheaper than those in the US.

Because you cannot ship a 145 lb whiskey barrel from the UK for $45.  Sure, you can make items for less in other countries, but freight costs are freight costs.  I have very attractive negotiated rates with my freight carriers and it costs me $200 just to ship one domestically.  I'm not some noob that doesn't know my niche.  I've done almost $1.5mm on Etsy in the last 3 years.  I know my business and niche.  

All you can really do is file the DMCA to have your information removed. You cannot stop the others from selling their products.

Perhaps you should reread the thread.  The issue at hand isn't just the IP issue.  It's that Etsy has not taken action against sellers that are simply creating bogus listings with no intent to ship anything.  You simply cannot build and ship a whiskey barrel for less than $100.  It's common sense.  As for as filing DCMA, I've done that for my items, but the problem is they are cloning my legitimate competitors' listings for which I cannot file a DCMA.  I've notified my competitors' and hope they will take action as well.  This is a situation where Etsy needs to use some common sense and ban these sellers.  It's clear what they have done.  They setup a shop and sell some low dollar items like seeds and get a few good reviews.  They then pivot to cloning high dollar listings like mine and hope shoppers don't realize that the positive reviews are for something completely unrelated.  I'd link to some here but I know how Etsy doesn't like us doing that. 

[bohemians]

@TheWhiskeyWorkshopCo Sorry I didn’t quite ‘clearly’ get the details of the other seller. I was only trying to help and it was a throw away point anyway.
I don’t know what  ‘tone’ you applied to my post … but whatever.