Etsy help not responding after a listing was removed

[GaiasGardenHerbals]

Etsy removed one of my listings (hair serum) for a violation that did not exist. After a couple of weeks the listing reappeared in my shop so obviously it was approved. I sold out and had to add more and whenI did that, bam, the listing was immediately removed again for a violation. Which obviously does not exist. Somehow I managed to get through on their phone help line (I have no idea how, because most of the time it does not work). I was given a case number and the promise of quick followup to let me know what the problem is. Of course no one has responded, and I've sent 3 emails with the case number and all I get is a generic response. I have no clue what the issue is with this listing, and I have no clue how to get anyone to tell me whether it's a word or a picture or what. I know it's not the ingredients and I know it's not an infringement issue. I've been selling this hair serum for years. Even on Etsy. So how can I get help with this? Any ideas? It's been going on for over 2 months now.

[PlatypusDream]

What was it?

https://www.etsy.com/legal/policy/plants-herbs-seeds-and-soil/242685907951

https://www.etsy.com/legal/policy/services/242665313101

Your "serum" listings make banned medical claims:

https://www.etsy.com/legal/policy/medical-drug-claims/239976157654

https://www.etsy.com/legal/policy/cosmetics-ingredients/1048080570782

"Please also keep in mind that Etsy prohibits prescription medications, pharmaceuticals, and certain types of medical drug claims. This means that we prohibit items which are intended for the treatment or prevention of an illness or a health condition, or affecting the structure or function of the body."

Examples from your listings:

"contain healing properties that protect against disease. For humans, this translates into anti-fungal, anti-bacterial, and anti-inflammatory healing and protective qualities."

" pain-relieving qualities, this balm works hard to relieve sore muscles, aches, and pains of over exertion. It is also an excellent choice for temporary relief of arthritis pain. "

[PlatypusDream]

Note that phrases like these are also not allowed:

"an excellent all-purpose herbal remedy, relieving pain and speeding recovery. It has antiviral, antibacterial, and anti-inflammatory qualities and so is useful for bacterial and viral conditions like herpes (including cold sores) and shingles. It is used to soothe and heal burns and skin injuries of all types. As if that wasn't enough, it also helps heal bruises and sprains, and can even provide some relief for arthritic joints. Seriously - it's a medicine cabinet in a jar!"

The last line is definitely over the line.

[nineteen27]

Yes you need FDA approval for those and these:

Useful for many skin problems including minor wounds and burns, abrasions, rashes, as well as dry, flaky skin caused by cold weather or exposure. This salve is also an excellent balm for aches and pains - strains, over-exertion, tendonitis, sciatica, and the like.

When you make those claims, your products become a drug and drugs need FDA approval and a whole lot of testing. 

You cannot make these claims no matter how long you have been selling them.

If your hair serum said anything like it helps grow your hair... it becomes a drug.

[GaiasGardenHerbals]

I appreciate your response and will revisit my descriptions. I can, however, prove that the ingredients listed do have the properties in the description. There are numerous studies and research etc. that confirm this. It’s frustrating that as small-scale makers we are subject to such scrutiny (not by Etsy but by the FDA for example), when OTC products make such outrageous claims as an accepted part of their packaging and marketing. 

[OmasFabricStash]

@GaiasGardenHerbals  Did you have your specific item independently tested and do you have the results posted in your shop? I don’t think the independent testing will make a difference but at least you have something to show if someone tries to sue because it didn’t do what you said it will or they had an adverse reaction to it.

[GaiasGardenHerbals]

I took all those out yesterday.

[VibeEnvy]

Making medical claims (claims that your products have a clinical effect like healing, repairing, growing, soothing, softening, etc of hair, skin, or etc is likely the cause. Something can be described as for your skin or hair but once statements get made that imply specific clinical results I believe that's when it breaks the rules.

[BagmakerSupply]

It sounds like you've been caught in a bot trap. Presuming that Etsy correctly reactivated your listing, no one updated the bot and when you renewed the listing the bot flagged your listing again. Not even going to try to guess  Etsy's reasoning in your case but as mentioned before Etsy is cracking down on what they feel inappropriate. Copyright and trademark infringements is a large factor, but it also seems that the bots are looking for trigger words with no consideration for context. Maybe the bot equates "serum" to mean "medicine". Since Etsy search is now also factoring in descriptions, so they along with titles, tags. and materials are all probably being checked. And the bots are also "reading" images. Hopefully you have / will receive an eMail from Etsy explaining the reason.

[GaiasGardenHerbals]

I actually think it might have something to do with the picture. I used a long haired doll that has gray hair like mine and I’m wondering if it is somehow interpreted as appropriating Native or Indigenous ways. The word serum is the name of other products. The ingredients are not banned, I did check.

[PrimFun]

If you did not change the listing then anytime the listing is renewed or changed it will run against the bot.  Etsy may have okayed but that doesn't mean they made an changes that allow the listing to escape the BOT.  They don't.  You need to decide if changed wording needed or live with it being deactivated from time to time.

The claims are sort of treading the line on being medical claims and have the ingredients been checked for approval by FDA?  Any testing required?  I know seller of small batches escaped testing but are your items truly safe for everyone?

[GaiasGardenHerbals]

I’ve been selling my salves and oils for over 16 years. I’ve researched the ingredients I use carefully and never make a claim that I can’t prove. Certain oils and essential oils, for example, are proven to be anti inflammatory or antibacterial and their chemical makeup confirms this. Yet the product that was removed was hair oil, no such claims were made except for help for dry hair or an itchy scalp. Again, the ingredients are known for such actions. I’ve already decided this item will not be relisted even when Etsy puts it back up. I’ll simply delete it. Unless someone actually tells me what it is that triggers the “bot”. This is the only listing that Etsy has ever removed. My concern is that Etsy’s help for their sellers is deeply flawed.

[FallenAngelBrass]

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@GaiasGardenHerbals wrote:

I’ve been selling my salves and oils for over 16 years.......My concern is that Etsy’s help for their sellers is deeply flawed.

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Etsy is stepping up its policing of the marketplace, spurred on by YEARS of requests to do so in this forum and on social media. Many items that were fine for many years are now catching the attention of Etsy.  Buyers and sellers alike have been begging Etsy for increased scrutiny for a very long time.  

[VibeEnvy]

It's not about what you can prove, nobody said Etsy doesn't allow FALSE medical claims, they don't allow medical claims period. Even if you have a video that shows an ointment magically make a scar heal instantly you can't claim it heals scars, it's the claim that's the issue not the validity of the claim. It's not an attack as you are doing something "wrong" or "bad" but that you're doing something that's not allowed whether it's a good or bad thing, true or false thing.

[Amaradorn]

Did it have the word 'Amber' in it? I think it's only 'Amber' + 'Necklace' or 'Bracelet' that is being caught by the autobots, but just wanted to check.

[GaiasGardenHerbals]

No it did not. And amber is an ingredient in my perfumes, and is listed, but it's not the amber that is used in jewelry - it's an amber accord. People also sell amber jewelry on Etsy so . . . 

[BagmakerSupply]

@GaiasGardenHerbals  It seems that the bots are looking for trigger words with no consideration for context and "amber" will flag the listing.

[SeasideRoseCreations]

There are issues with Etsy bots taking down any listing with the word Amber in it (as there are restrictions).

It's best not to keep referencing what other shops are doing and basing your own shop on what others are getting away with or what slips by bots.

[VibeEnvy]

Again I think you are overlooking the technicality of the issue, doesn't matter what the context is, the "word" amber being present in a listing is not allowed now, regardless of what it means, the word itself is basically banned from use.

[BagmakerSupply]

Without getting into a discussion of what is fair or right or if your listing should be deactivated, the fact that you have been selling something for years only means that the bots have been updated. If there are other shops selling similar items it only means that they have not been caught yet.

[ReginaldSpleen]

If Etsy decided to stop people selling things that were coloured blue it would be up to them. It's their platform and they can, more or less, make their own rules.

They say "no medical claims can be made in listings", so no medical claims can be made in listings, regardless of whether the claims are true.

[blzopbhi]

If the item was reactivated, then it is doubtful the listing contained any of the problems for which it was removed. If that were the case, the listing would not have been reactivated and, based on what others are saying, most of the listings in the shop would have been removed.

Best bet is to contact Etsy and ask why the specific listing was removed. Etsy "help" works from scripts, so you will probably be told more than once to check some link that has already been provided in this thread. Keep responding until someone actually responds with an answer that doesn't send you running around in circles.  This could take half a dozen or more back-and-forths.

And, it matters not who said what, where or when.  Making medical claims is against Etsy's rules, so if you want to sell here, you might consider following their rules rather than defending the breaking of them.

[GaiasGardenHerbals]

There were no "medical" claims for the hair oil. But I am going to go through my salves and try and keep enough information that people want to purchase the product while trying not to make "claims" (even though there's plenty of acceptable proof that certain herbs and EOs have specific qualities.

[BagmakerSupply]

@RoyalSynergy  Please do not SPAM the forums with shop links - it is against the Community Policy (you have read them, correct). If people click on it and then don't buy it will hurt you in search and may get your shop shut down. And at the very least you should have your shop policies filled out. And you hand make the phone cases?

[Former_Member]

Do not keep sending new emails to Etsy.  That will put you at the bottom of the list.  Just keep responding to the original email when they respond indicating that you still need help.