Another issue with Etsy Customer service and easy refund policy.

[zombiehorse3000]

I sold a 35mm compact camera, olympus mju II zoom 80, perfectly functional, and in perfect conditions, as in the listing photos and description.
I recorded a video before shipping, showing the camera next to the shipping label. I'm in EU, customer in EU, so EU laws apply.
The customer receives the camera, I got my money, all happy.

After 2 months the customer sends me a video saying that the camera was damaged at arrival (–_–) and asking for a refund.

I ask for proofs, she sends me a video, showing the camera acting weird.
Wa was pretty sure she dropped it, or mechanically broke it someway.
I offered to pay for the repair to a repair shop with a good reputation I found in her city. She refused.

She escalated the case, etsy decided for a full refund and she keeps the camera.
I asked my camera back, she said I must also pay for the shipping (it's usually 15€ for EU, she asked me 25), I refused.
After a better inspection of the video, I noticed missing parts and some cracks on the front lens sliding cover, to me it's a proof she dropped the camera or damaged it somehow.

So, I wrote to customer service for sellers, asking to review the case, sending the screenshots I took from the video, and sending them the video.

They told me: since we cannot inspect the camera, we trust the buyer, we gave her full refund and she keeps the camera, we are not changing our mind.

Now: those are the images, please tell me if it's so hard to understand the situation.

My photos: https://postimg.cc/gallery/WqBcKLH

Customer photos: https://postimg.cc/gallery/mLQcds2

[OneEyeCatStudio]

This is just my opinion, but I would not list anything over $250 on Etsy.

To understand the situation you just need to know that Etsy provides buyer protection on items over $250.

Etsy does not provide seller protection on items over $250.

All they have to do is ask Etsy and Etsy gives them their money back and they get to keep the item.

[zombiehorse3000]

oh, the $250 limit is funny too, because I exceeded the 250 by $3, thanks to fees and express shipping upgrade. the limit is per transaction, not per item value.

[zombiehorse3000]

plus:
1- seller protection works only on 1 item per year.

2- there are laws and rules and respect. if a customer breaks an item, he/she/it must not have its money back! If i buy something on Amazon, drop it, break it, crack it, and try to give it back back, they'll never gonna refund me!

[AFinerCutWoodworking]

I don't know anything about them, but does the EU have any laws that protect you as a seller against a scam artist like that? Sadly, you get no backing from Etsy at all in this case. There have been many, many threads on here about this same type of situation, with the same end result from Etsy.

[CryzalisDesigns]

short answer: No

Always make sure parcels are sent insured in case of loss or damage.

If the parcel has been signed for and received but the customer claims they have not received it. Report it to the postal inspectors.

[Spellbinderie]

So let's be clear here, this has nothing to do with EU policy as this would have happened no matter WHERE buyer and seller were located since it's an ETSY POLICY that caused the refund.


But regarding your question, in France you CANNOT claim damage during delivery weeks let alone months later. It's 3 days in general to report damage and 10 days max under certain circumstances only but honestly it can be difficult to even exercise that right.  It's best to refuse delivery if you see anything wrong with the box. Even better is if you try to insist that the delivery person wait, you open and inspect and refuse if it's damaged.  Everyone makes a big to do about the EU rules and it's not helped by some here who quote the rules out of context but I live here and I can tell you getting a refund is not easy and it's not happening left and right.  Etsy's policy is FAR more generous than any EU policy.

I will add though that I'm just talking about DAMAGE, not an "not as described" claim.  The OP's buyer opened a damaged during transport claim so I'm sticking to that topic.  Not as described claims are trickier but again really doesn't matter here since no matter what evidence is produced, Etsy isn't interested because the sale exceeded the Etsy's seller protection threshold. 

https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/en/shopping-internet/delivery.html

[CraftyCornishMaids]

There is no way anyone can prove it was not damaged before you sent it, or if it was damaged in transit

It can be videoed, then damaged afterwards by yourself, before it is sent, or it can be damaged in transit, or the customer could damage it - there s no way of proving when it happened.

If they say it is  not as described, they have 180 days in the EU, to raise a case with their card provider, and 100 days on etsy,
and even if it was $5, sellers are not protected if it is found in the buyers favour.

[LittleGemsJewells]

I remembered reading your original post "class action" on this subject back in November. I thought you were going to seek professional advice back then. Etsy made their decision last November and this is now the end of March and back then they told you it was final. There are many lessons to be learned here, either let it go and stop letting it eat you up or contact a solicitor and seek legal advice. I'm sorry you got burned I really am especially when the order was only a couple of euro's over the 250 threshold.