It would be interesting to compare  last week's fiasco that "only" affected about 0.1% of sellers with the overcharging of all non_US sellers (so about 40% of sellers?). I wonder what the actual monetary totals involved are?

One was stopped within hours, the other is still ongoing

One has supposedly had all wrong charges repaid, the other repayments were promised in December then at the last minute postponed until some unspecified date in "early 2019"

One has a Task Force to investigate and rectify, the other has ....... nothing

 

I fully appreciate that for those affected by last week's fiasco the effects were much more catastrophic than the few pounds in extra fees I have been charged, but the fact remains that neither should have happened. And we should have had some sort of plan in place for the rectification of the over-charging glitch long before now

 

When is Etsy going to get it's financial systems in order?

 

BrillandBen
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

Etsy says it’s put together a team to find out why members are being designated A1, A2 etc in the clunkfest that is the Lithium forum.

But,  Etsy won’t even trouble itself a little bit by asking the janitor to spend an afternoon finding out how to stop overcharging its non US shops.

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BohemianMoonDesign
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

BrillandBen 

What do you mean????? Desgnated as A!, A2?


@BrillandBen wrote:

Etsy says it’s put together a team to find out why members are being designated A1, A2 etc in the clunkfest that is the Lithium forum.



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DamnGoodPopcorn
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

Not all the US sellers have been made whole yet. I know of at least one that still has not been paid back for her bank overdraft charges caused by Etsy

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elanknits
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

I received the email from etsy that I am involved in this situation and would appreciate an update, the beginning of 2019 is over.

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BoudoirPrive
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

Ditto this!

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bythebeadtoo
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

Marking to read thoroughly later.  Glad to read some emphasis on this issue!

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ColoredInStone
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

*** Goldman Sachs...better known as "The Bank of Evil" ***

Here in the U.S., our banking system crashed in 2007 as banks defrauded investors...particulary with "Goldman Sachs". From 2005 to 2007, Goldman issued and underwrote many mortgages and securities that had been backed by residential loans borrowed by consumers with shoddy credit ratings. That helped tip the economy into recession after the housing bubble burst in 2007, leading to a tsunami of foreclosures and delinquencies. That caused billions of dollars in losses for investors. 

And it was MY U.S. tax dollars that bailed out the banks, while not a single banker went to prison.

I hear constantly in economic news, that the EU has better protection measures for their citizens than we do, here in the U.S, while so many deregulations have allowed more corruption to settle into both Business and Government.

So, when Etsy sellers complain about Etsy's minor infractions...I have to laugh...because so many U.S. companies have gotten away with so much worse.

I'm optimistic about our future...The latest U.S. mid-term elections voted in a bunch of smart minded young progressive "Females" who have the backing of many, to start changing laws for U.S. citizens rather than laws to support the wealth of greedy corporations. 

To all overseas sellers, good luck with your fight and I hope you get what's owed to you. 

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BohemianMoonDesign
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

Yes ColoredInStone and now Bernie Sanders is running for president! Feeling hopeful ♥

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TheLogoMat
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

Hoping these mishaps are not too detrimental...

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CindyLouDoesStats
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

Maybe they haven't paid us back yet because they are still too busy overbilling people:

https://community.etsy.com/t5/Bugs-and-Technical-Issues/Etsy-attempted-to-draft-307-80-4-separate-Ti...

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KCowie
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

And yet the overcharging continues.......

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BoudoirPrive
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

From Etsys's own policies:-

"When you make a sale through Etsy.com, you will be charged a transaction fee of 5% of the price you display for each listing, plus the amount you charge for shipping and gift wrapping."

AND

"To avoid incurring foreign exchange charges, Etsy recommends you list your items in the same currency as your payment account currency. Buyers will see the items in the currency of their choosing. If you decide to list in a currency other than that of your bank account, you will be charged 2.5% over the current market rate to send funds to your payment account."

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cindylouwho2
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

Guess what? This isn't the only way non-US sellers are being overcharged by Etsy. They've been taking too much from all of us who sell in our own currencies and have standalone PayPal, when PayPal sales involve US or EU sales taxes (possibly Australia too):

https://community.etsy.com/t5/Pricing-and-Finance/Another-Overcharge-Sales-Tax-Paid-Thru-PayPal-Over...

My other shop is small, but Etsy owes me more than a few bucks. Imagine if I were in a country where I couldn't use Etsy Payments (so all sales were through Paypal). For large shops, this could be a huge amount. For me, on the EU VAT charges Etsy is taking almost 5% too much each time. 

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Donobob
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

Thx for the link Cindy.

 

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Beadcomber
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

@cindylouwho2 

I just checked a sale I had via Stand alone Paypal on Feb 15th. 

I sell in US currency. The tax was US$3.18. Etsy deducted CDN$4.21 which would make the exchange rate 1.323899. Interestingly, and I checked all statements, Etsy does not provide a currency exchange rate for the $4.21 they charged me and that fee is only found on the monthly statement.

I did have other sales that day through Etsy payments for which they provided exchange rates of 1.296199, 1.299198, and 1.29058 twice. So Etsy overcharges on the Currency exchange of the Tax, i.e. charges 2.5% currency conversion on top of the rates? Seems just plain wrong.

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cindylouwho2
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

@Beadcomber   Ugh, I wondered about that then forgot to check.

 

That's likely why they sent those of us who sell in USD the fee overbilling emails last year too - because they are overbilling us, even though we can't see it easily. If you check those, you will probably find the same thing. 

I am marking this so I can add it to the bugs thread I am going to start. Depending on what they announce tomorrow, I may not post that til Friday, since I have other commitments tomorrow as well. 

Thank you! 

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LaBelleEpoqueDeco
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

We were supposed to be refunded by the end of last December from us being overcharged by Etsy... then it was Junuary.... Now, we have this useless forum that is a smoke screen so we can see what happens and cannot communicate (I no longer come here--I guess that was the purpose of this)

When are we going to be refunded? Has anyone started class-actions?

 

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BoudoirPrive
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

I'm currently looking into a load of debits by Etsy from my Paypal account which I came across by accident whilst looking for something else.  I've been told that they are my Etsy monthly fees, but I paid my fees direct from my Etsy account balance.  Also, I have more than one debit some months.  I can only look back on Paypal as far as 2016, so lord knows how far back these debits go.  They suddenly stopped on 5 November 2018.  Unfortunately, Etsy seems to now only show us billing information as far back as October 2018, so I am unable to check the Paypal debits against my Etsy billing accounts prior to October 2018, unless someone knows of a way to get that information back.   I have standalone Paypal as well as Etsy Payments and sell in the same currency as my bank account.  The whole Etsy financial mess quite frankly stinks!

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Beadcomber
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem


@BoudoirPrive wrote:

I'm currently looking into a load of debits by Etsy from my Paypal account which I came across by accident whilst looking for something else.  I've been told that they are my Etsy monthly fees, but I paid my fees direct from my Etsy account balance.  Also, I have more than one debit some months.  I can only look back on Paypal as far as 2016, so lord knows how far back these debits go.  They suddenly stopped on 5 November 2018.  Unfortunately, Etsy seems to now only show us billing information as far back as October 2018, so I am unable to check the Paypal debits against my Etsy billing accounts prior to October 2018, unless someone knows of a way to get that information back.   I have standalone Paypal as well as Etsy Payments and sell in the same currency as my bank account.  The whole Etsy financial mess quite frankly stinks!


that is correct. If you have a Standalone PP account, your fees would have been paid from there right until end of October. I choose to pay my bills that way until Etsy changed the Payments system in October. I had debits every month until then from my standalone PP because I chose to pay from there, sometimes more than once a month. Maybe you had auto billing set up for your PP account or you paid it manually, but it probably is correct.

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CuriosAnCollectibles
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

Little wonder their profits are continually up, they're overcharging 1000s of sellers. 

Businesses worldwide would increase their profit margins if they short changed their customers on every sale. 

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BoudoirPrive
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

Totally agree.  This situation is outrageous and quite possibly illegal!

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CuriosAnCollectibles
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

Hi @BoudoirPrive hppe you're OK Pearl? 

I contacted them again yesterday about overcharging and our refunds, I don't expect a reply. 

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Donobob
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

A small skim is a powerful thing. Etsy has been skimming for months from foriegn sellers - the ones that would have the hardest time launching a lawsuit due to location. Every notice your change at a shop is off 25¢ - and if you see it, often the skimmer is fired. I have personally caught at least 2 places with a skim, and they both lost their jobs.

Etsy should be the same, some people should lose their jobs over this skimming on Transaction Fees and the skim on Taxes when Stand Alone Paypal is used. Both of these issues have been known since Nov 2018 or earlier - that is 4 months now. Yet still Etsy has not corrected the problem in their software. It is definately theft and it is impossible for every board member to not know about it. When US sellers are effected Etsy fixes their software in a week ...

Let us not forget how hidden this all is. The new payment system really hides these two overcharges. The Taxes are not even on the Finance > Payment Account. Was that purposeful? Well this may have started with an error, but it is not an error any longer. The fees are hidden and the overcharging has not stopped after 4 months+.

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BoudoirPrive
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

@Beadcomber- No, I always paid my monthly bills from the balance of my Etsy account.  Also, there is not just one payment coming out of Paypal each month, but sometimes two.   If it was my Etsy bill that was being paid, then there would only be one debit per month.  I have been in contact with Paypal, as they seem more helpful than Etsy.  By deliberately making historic records unobtainable to us, they are preventing us from making a proper check of our financial situations.  I can't help but think that was deliberately done.

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EtaGeminiArt
Community Member

Re: Overcharging of non_US sellers compared to last week's financial mayhem

Etsy has stated that the overpayment to non-US sellers is because of the currency exchange. Each transaction may be higher than 5% or may be lower than 5% depending on the currency exchange rate at the time of conversion. From that, I think Etsy will not address this issue and repay overage charges to non US sellers as your next sale may or may not balance out the over charge depending on the currency conversion rate. I don't think we will ever be reimbursed as Etsty believes the matter is resolved, which is why there is crickets from Etsy on this issue. Etsy is probably hoping that eventually we will stop asking them about the issue.

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