re: rust spots on magnet/pinback image

[SmirkingGoddess]

Hello,
Has anyone ever dealt with the metal part of the magnet/button getting rusty and then showing on the image? How does one avoid this?

I've recently read where some button part places offer "ceramic" parts-are there any vendors you know of who offer non-rusting metal back parts for the magnets/buttons?

Thank you.

[SmirkingGoddess]

anyone?

[potatopotato]

I would be curious if other sellers have had this problem. I had this happen to me. I have buttons in my collection that have this as well. But some are really old and do not have this problem. I originally was getting my printing done at a copy place and using the paper that came in the machines. I think the cheap paper has something to do with it. I switched to a slightly heaver weight paper a few years ago and it seems to have done the trick. But maybe it is less noticeable. I was really frightened when I first noticed this considering the time and effort I put in to this. So I did not say anything to anyone while I tried to figure out the problem. A friend that makes bigger buttons asked me about it because this was happening to him also. I live in San Francisco and the weather might have something to do it. I e-mailed my button supplier and they said that they have not heard about this. Anyone else? Please check old buttons that you have made and check for spots. I think I have this problem licked but I would like more input.

[SmirkingGoddess]

Thanks for answering James,what weight paper did you use? Hey I was born in San Fran!

[Former_Member]

I found one supplier I was using had rusty backs, they were the first people I used so I didn't know if it was common. I've switched and have never received rusty parts since.
A problem I'm noticing is with the 1" pinbacks, I've taken a break from etsy and just checked some old stock of packaged button sets, and it looks like the ink has run in the back of the button? Is it the spring pin that causes this? Has anyone else seen this happen?? I will be making my stock as orders come in or right before shows from now on.

[DorkyDino]

I think if you buy the Tecre brand parts they seem to do better about not rusting. As for the print, I'd suggest laserjet instead of inkjet, because laserjet prints are less likely to run/rust. So far I've never had a rusting problem when using Tecre parts with laserjet prints, but I've seen it on buttons I've bought from other people.

[Former_Member]

Perhaps check the brand of paper you're using? That's my surest suggestion. The paper I used - simple copy paper - when I was just experimenting with the buttons would get rust spots immediately. Then I changed brands and upgraded, and my buttons have gone on years without any signs. :)

[Former_Member]

As others have said, I find that this happens less when using a print shop and a nice paper stock for printing.

[Former_Member]

I 100% agree about it seeming to be due to the paper, but I think proper storage can play a part as well. Keep them in a dry, cool areas (but not too cool!). I store my parts in air-tight containers.

[Former_Member]

Since moving to the south, I've noticed this happening. Now, I only make to order, instead of making buttons ahead of of time.

Weirdly enough, I have vintage buttons from the 1960s on, and none of them are rusty!! I really wonder if it's an issue with the suppliers themselves, and quality of metal. It happens to people who print at home, and to people who print at a shop.

[Former_Member]

@Bayleaf--I've started putting them aside. I use them when I make buttons for myself, or for examples for Etsy listings. Waste not, want not, etc!!

[Former_Member]

I am hoping you can help me figure this problem out. I've been using Tecre parts to make 1" button magnets and pins for years, and 2 years ago I noticed that some of the older buttons I had made were rusting and showing through the paper design. I suspected that it was due to my inkjet printer, so I switched to getting each button printed on a professional-grade laser printer at a local copy shop. Since then the colors have been bright and crisp and I thought I had solved the problem. Within the last week I have noticed that many of my older magnets are showing signs of rust, even with the laser printed images. The paper being used is an acid-free, 32lb bond. I have inspected older pins and they do not appear to be affected by rust. I am using E-6000 to glue the ceramic magnets to the back of my buttons, and upon tearing the magnet out of the back of one of the rusted buttons, the rust was not under the magnet, but on the sides and under the paper. The only thing I can think of is that I store them on cookie sheets separated by layers of polyurethane foam (the egg carton looking stuff sometimes used for packing) and that it could be off-gassing into the magnets causing a moisture build-up? If you have any insights into what could be causing this, I would so appreciate it! Thank you!

[Former_Member]

I have old buttons of my own, and ones I've collected over time from other artist and they've rusted on the back as well..but never enough to show on the image itself....Either that or I'm just that blind.

Rust (or by science, Iron Oxide) is very subjected to oxygen...so it's not too surprising that these metal pieces gradually rust over time because they are constantly subjected to air. Just like everything else that is metal, it's going to rust. Just pin metal is a lot thinner, and easily rust over.

For your parts, store em in air tight containers (mason jars for example) but for already premade buttons that you've owned or bought...I don't know how to truly keep those from rusting. Maybe try sealing it with something? Anti rust or a glaze?

Hmmm

[NiceButton]

I also use Tecre parts. In my own experience, humidity is what causes this "rusting", also known by book and button collectors as "foxing".

I made over a hundred 2.25" magnets as favors for my own wedding five years ago. Several friends and family still have them on the fridge. Some of these are fine, and some have foxed - largely dependent on the humidity in the home. Those who don't run air conditioning on a regular basis have the most foxing on their magnets.

One friend has a coastal weekend home where she doesn't run air conditioning during the week. In that house, paper and magazines curl overnight, and the alphabet magnet set that I gave her foxed quickly and thoroughly.

I've lived in Austin, Houston, Seattle, and New Orleans. Foxing in Texas wasn't too bad because of rare rain and good air conditioning. In Seattle, it was terrible, because the humidity is constantly high, and we didn't have air conditioning (only heating). I had to buy a dehumidifier, and most of my own buttons and fridge magnets still foxed after a few months. In New Orleans, we have AC again, which reduces the indoor humidity somewhat. Fridge magnets I made last year are still in good condition.

So, I believe it's mostly dependent on the humidity where the products are made and where they are kept. I try to make items in conditions of 50% humidity or less so that moisture won't be trapped inside, and I store Items in sealed containers if I know I might not sell them for a few months.

I think vintage pins have less foxing because the images were printed on an older style of photo paper and then covered with celluloid. If anyone knows of 8.5"x11" laser printer paper that doesn't wick moisture into a button I'd love to know! (Wishful thinking, I'm sure.) :)

[Former_Member]

I wonder if putting a bit of plastic wrap between the metal button parts and the paper would work.

Some of my homemade buttons have displayed some rust through the picture.

Trying it for science will take a couple of years because that's how long it took for some of mine to rust, but I feel like the logic sounds good. Put something between the metal and the paper and it shouldn't show. ...right??

[Former_Member]

Going to make mine with the plastic wrap as described from now on I think

[SmirkingGoddess]

I use acid-free paper that is thicker and that seems to work and I only purchase Tecre supplies. However I recently emailed some commercial vendors and one said they laminate the designs with 1.4mil laminate sheets before pressing. I have a small Scotch laminating machine, but pouches don't come that thin-they start at 3Mil up to 10Mil.

Recently I pressed a 2.25" design with round mylar underneath as will as on top of design, I plan to run it under water to see if this works.

When I started out in this business I had to use an outside vendor to create my magnets, I would email the company my designs, they printed and pressed and sent back. Not much of a profit margin, but I wanted to get my foot in the door with this product until I could afford the Tecre machinery. Unfortunately his magnets started to rust on me big time, I probably lost a lot of repeat customers. I have tons of magnets and pinbacks that I can't sell. Upon further inspection back then I noticed he used adhesive-backed paper as when I took apart the buttons the paper was adhered to the metal part, it must've been a chemical reaction. I think this printer changed this as I'm sure I wasn't the only customer who complained about the immediate foxing issue.

Do any of you ever find "bubbles" appearing, not noticeable unless closely inspected on designs where no ink has covered the face of the image other than text? I'm told this is because paper can shift around after a few years under the mylar. I pressed very hard now to prevent this and am adding color to face of some designs.

[JustStickerButtons]

We have been pressing buttons since 2009. We run ten electric presses and a bank of pneumatics. We produce with no exaggeration, millions of buttons every year. We have encountered every problem you can think of including rusting parts.

Tecre, Badge Parts, USA Buttons, they all get their steel from the same plants. Tecre doesn't do anything special to their parts. Their parts will rust just like everyone else's when exposed to humidity.

If you're looking for a new supplier, Joe from Badge part is my favorite, but the ladies over at USA Buttons are wonderful.

The best and most cost-effective way to ensure rust does not show through your print is to encapsulate your prints. Lamination is the best solution we have found. We laminate all our buttons, with the exception of our squircle and oblongs due to presses not forming the buttons well without mylars.

If you are using a tecre hand press to make your rectangles, be very careful about how much thickness you add to your button. If you are using a 24lb+ paper, plus adding extra mylars or plastic wrap, you buttons will start to flap. The square and rectangle presses have very small tolerances.

If you don't want to laminate, your next best bet would be to spray some sort of sealant on the metal. But that sounds like too much work.

I read earlier that someone was getting their buttons printed on 32lb paper, that is incredibly thick, and with certain sizes, will cause blowouts and malformed buttons, especially if you are using one of the electric machines.

PS. IF you do have rusty parts, don't throw them away, they are 100% recyclable!

[SmirkingGoddess]

Hello Kelly, Thank you so much for your informed reply. By encapsulate I assume you mean to laminate on both sides. Although my magnets are doing much better and pinbacks-when I first started I had a vendor who pressed my designs and he used adhesive backed paper and thus a chemical reaction occurred and pins/magnets rusted-lost a lot of $ that way. So I brought manufacturing in house and never looked back. For magnets that will be used near a dishwasher I laminate on both sides. Since I handpress there hasn't been a blow out issue and I press down hard. I also use acid free paper, pricier yes but print quality is better and I suspect this is also key in longevity of magnet. I tested a double laminated magnet in water and so far no rusting that I could see. It's important to me to sell durable, long lasting goods to my customers.

Do you recycle your rusty parts in your own recycle bin or do you sell them to someone? I've been curious if I could sell my older stock from years ago to someone for recycling.

[JustStickerButtons]

We have a single stream dumpster at the shop. So, all waste that is recyable goes in there. Yes, by encapsulate I mean laminate both sides.

[SmirkingGoddess]

Thanks again Kelly, I see you're a fellow Nutmegger and just favorited your shop, will keep those die cut decals in mind!

[JustStickerButtons]

No problem at all! I hope our paths cross! If you have any other questions, please reach out. My husband can fix just about any button machine that exists. We've experienced it all!

[SmirkingGoddess]

Kelly, could you convo me your contact info, in case (knock on wood I won't though) I need you husband for Tecre button machine repair? Thanks so much, I'd like to keep the info in my files.

Best-
SU