Why the Hostility?

[bittersweetpunkin]

I have seen Sellers turn on each other and call each other out not once but TWICE in this forum today and I think they should be ashamed of themselves. Handmade and Vintage Sellers are struggling to get informed and compliant for CPSIA. It is sad when a Seller has to come to the forum to defend their shop to people who "assume" they are not being compliant without getting their facts straight. If you have an issue with a seller's item because you are a POTENTIAL BUYER interested in said item than take your issue up with the seller privately.

Let's not all turn into the CPSIA police...it's getting ugly.

[TheRubyKittenCo]

glad I missed all that....totally inappropriate

[Former_Member]

It is easy to show your ugliness when hiding behind a computer screen.

[Former_Member]

I don't think this is about being hostile or misinformed. This is about the use of leaded swarovski crystals (or other lead-containing components) in products marketed for children under 12.

There are sellers who are making necessary changes in order to be compliant with CPSIA, and there are others who are not - perhaps because they are not fully up to date on the law.

CPSIA is a fundamentally flawed law in many regards, and people all across the nation are trying to get, or stay, involved in order to nudge those in charge to continue to mold it into a smart, effective piece of legislation. But, in the matter of components which are *widely known* to contain lead, I can't understand why any sellers of children's items would continue to use them. They are prohibited. Period. No amount of testing will make certain items suitable for sale to/for children.

[Former_Member]

Very well said GreenMamba. I read the early thread and I agree - Swarovski crystals are not for children. I would have to assume that the seller must not know about the CPSIA law. I myself found out only by visiting the forum.

[bittersweetpunkin]

The seller did know and she was compliant and in the process if editing her listings with the changes she made....she came to the forums and defended herself so we have to accept that instead of assuming she is doing something wrong. All I am saying is let's let Etsy weed out the bad eggs and concentrate on our own businesses.

[herflyinghorses]

I also see a lot of hostility towards international sellers and misguided information.

[Tissage]

I've seen two threads where a seller posted that she was being called out when she wasn't referred to at all. I get that this is a confusing and difficult issue, but why are people swearing a seller has been called out when they haven't been?

[archaicdesign]

bittersweetpunkin said:
The seller did know and she was compliant and in the process if editing her listings with the changes she made....she came to the forums and defended herself so we have to accept that instead of assuming she is doing something wrong. All I am saying is let's let Etsy weed out the bad eggs and concentrate on our own businesses.
__________

a seller came to both of those threads stating that she was the one "being talked about' no one except that seller called herself out in both of those threads.

[germandolls]

Oh dear, not a good way to start the week...I pray for peace around the world and on etsy!

[Former_Member]

oh boy...i missed all this but I have noticed in the past lots of hostility in the CPSIA threads. I don't know why, but honestly, it's why i lurk more often than post in this section. People are nervous and defensive about this issue (obviously) but that doesn't mean we should turn on each other. just sayin'....

[Former_Member]

Thank you, bittersweetpunkin! I read those threads yesterday and just cringed! We all of us have our nerves on edge with this, it's understandable that some feel as though they're being targeted by others; goodness knows I've felt more paranoid than usual in the last eight months or so as a result.

[BeneathTheRowanTree]

I agree, herflyinghorses :)

[Former_Member]

I didn't read all of those threads, I just opened one up to see what it was about. Most of the time any issues with the Lead laws will be lack of knowledge where education is all that is needed.

Here is the main problem as I see it: Shortsightedness

Assume that a dangerous product that violates the lead laws is sold on Etsy and injures a child. It gets picked up by the Media and goes national. New laws, Child injured, popular worldwide craft website (Etsy), Recession that drove more people to become crafters, etc. TONS of good story lines for the alarmist media trying for "shock value" to grab onto.

So the media plays a "beware of rogue craft sites like Etsy, buyer beware, it's dangerous to buy on Etsy as sellers are breaking the law and endangering children" angle. Tons of shock value story lines here, you can think of some as well.

I need a great place to SELL, I assume you do as well. That is the number one priority here. There are tons of other outlets to be social and have fun, Etsy can and does have that aspect, but this is really about SALES. Helping to hold Etsy to a higher standard should not only be acceptable, it should be required.

I am new here, I posted my first item for sale on July 17th, so I am sorry if I am speaking out of turn, but Etsy is Wonderful! This fantastic site has given me an outlet beyond fairs and farmer's markets. I know that I choose to associate with and surround myself with the very best I know how to, and Etsy is the best.

Sellers here should be proud of Etsy, and work to protect it.

[archaicdesign]

no seller was a target in those threads. a simple question was asked, that's all. one seller did post that they were were being talked about in those threads which is absolutely not true. it's a difficult time for many sellers and i understand how we can get defensive about the issues that effect our shops, but the threads were not hostile towards anyone.

no one was singled out or targeted, or "being talked about"

[archaicdesign]

thank you Snuggybaby, excellent post.

[Former_Member]

No one was being singled out in those threads. An overly-defensive seller, who was never mentioned by anyone, called herself out, and was quite hostile herself in the process, insulting the business acumen of those posting in the thread.

There are *plenty* of sellers here, not just one, selling disallowed items. Ignorance or good intentions are not an excuse. Listings need to be accurate and up-to-date, and if they aren't, baring fangs isn't the right attitude to take.

I think we can all sympathize with those affected by this law. I know I sure do! That doesn't preclude concern over the issue that there are still a lot of non-compliant items floating around Etsy. It could give the entire site a bad name.

[bobbinalong]

I missed the threads yesterday so went back this morning and had a one-page peek at one of them. I was enjoying my family all day yesterday.

I still cannot see how this law is going to protect all kids. We, as sellers, know about it, know what we can and cannot sell, what we cannot make into a kids item. But think of the millions of moms and grandmas out there who will make items for kids in their families that have never run across this law. Those that can go into any craft store and purchase all kinds of items and come home and make everything from toys to clothes to bedding. Not to mention, pull old supplies from Grandma's stash, or from a second-hand store, or a garage sale. When you purchase something from the store, it is up to the customer to know how harmful it is, not the store letting the customer know.

I stopped making my rag dolls and my tooth fairy pillows simply because I have had the material for a year and couldn't prove where I purchased it from. It is just cotton fabric, and I know where I bought it. My ragdolls were made from cotton fabric. I can still remember being on the phone with a person in my Representative's office asking me what if a child sucked on a doll's arm. The fabric is cotton, washed by me, new stuffing, new fabric. There is a mindset in Congress that still does not allow for creative people to make items and sell. Making items they can do as I just explained. Sell, no, not without jumping through hoops. On the tail end is the child. This law is somehow backwards.

And because of how backwards it appears to be, we all get upset sometimes. We wouldn't be good parents or artists if we didn't. This law is so constricting, and not really protecting all the children out there. That makes it also frustrating. So, being we are both frustrated and constricted in what we can legally do, I don't think it is such a bad thing to see us "upset" sometimes. Perhaps that is what will drive us to fight this law for change even harder than we have been. It took a lot of pushing and writing and going on TV and communicating to get this law changed to where it is now. I really feel we need to continue. The people in Congress, well, most of them, have never touched a sewing machine, never held a pair of knitting needles, never created a toy, or a blanket to keep a kid warm. We must enlighten them.

[Former_Member]

Name a law and you can find a lot of people that don't agree with it. This law *is* stupid and no, it doesn't protect all children. That doesn't mean we get to ignore it.

[happywhosits]

bobbinalong, fabric is exempt from lead testing, but to be compliant with CPSIA, you do have to meet labeling requirements for anything for children under 13 made after 8/14.

Eileen...

[Former_Member]

Tissage says:
I've seen two threads where a seller posted that she was being called out when she wasn't referred to at all. I get that this is a confusing and difficult issue, but why are people swearing a seller has been called out when they haven't been?

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yes I got the same impression.. the thread appeared to me that it was just intended to talk about the issue of swarovski crystals being used for baby items, and whether it was allowed.

[Former_Member]

And it is an important issue !

[kraftedkeepsakes288]

I'm beginning to think that eventually everything becomes "dangerous to children"! I slept in a crib that's now outlawed and all my kids slept in it. My mother was a foster mother and all thirty of those babies slept in it and not one of us got our head stuck or strangled!! That goes for small parts, leaded parts etc. My gosh where is common sense and keeping an eye on your kids to ensure their safety. A baby can choke just as easy on a button that comes loose as he or she can on a leaded or unleaded crystal. Of course I never bought bling things for my kids, couldn't afford it or I probably would have....I hope I didn't miss the point too badly here guys, sorry!

[Former_Member]

I don't like those "good old days" arguments because anyone saying "I survived in a house with lead paint" etc is disregarding the children who did not.

[kraftedkeepsakes288]

not what I meant at all, I was just saying that more and more things are becoming publicly dangerous and regulated and labled as such which keeps people from using common sense. They figure if it says, safe, it is. No one can protect your children like you can!