When a law is passed - how it works in a nutshell

[#1]

The authors of the law have already conceded they intended for it to be applied to imports mainly, not small home businesses in this country.

Plus just because something is law, doesn't mean anyone is APPLYING the law. It has to then go to its regulatory agency, which in this case might be the FDA. But that also hasn't been decided yet. Then the FDA(whoever) decides how and to whom this will apply. So the law has no body of jurisdiction until it is assigned to a regulatory body.

This agency publishes rules in the Federal Register and then those can be challenged under the Adminstrative procedures Act. Under the APA, the rules are often challenged for being "overburdensome". This probably won't even get challenged because legislators will fix it.

It takes time. And the legislators are already discussing the need to rewrite or amend what they've written because of crafters' concerns.

I wish everyone would just continue to give legislators input regarding the ill-fitting language of this law and let them fix it without creating all this fear.

It's very unhealthy and really creates an unnecessary Us and Them mentality.

A good junior high school civics class will help all the fear-mongerers here understand how law is made and applied. And then a nice lunch with a lawyer friend who can read the law to you and interpret it for you and tell you how fast a judge would throw out a case against a small time crafter will ease your mind.

Please stop worrying. It's heart-breaking.

[Savantpatterns]

attn: generation tie dye. I can personally assure you grim reader has no connection to PIRG (did you read it?) nor has he never heard of rabbit somebody or other as you claim.

You guys (not gtd specifically) need to be really wary of just wildly spreading rumors and saying whichever thing. So many etsy people have said they intend to ignore this law that I'm sure CPSC will have a field day commencing feb 10th.

[littlegirlPearl]

rabbithorns says:

Well, I don't trust that kind of lunacy. There is a thread posted frantically asking - what about our children's libraries - Oh No! They will be closing - just because some moron published an article recently about printed material being non-compliant and therefore this law will affect the liberties of our literate children. Printer's ink stopped being produced with lead years ago.

*****************

I must respectfully disagree. The letter that was written came from the American Library Association, not a "moron" as you say. Here is the link to their blog: http://www.wo.ala.org/districtdispatch/?p=1322

Also, I understand where you are coming from, trying to maintain a rational approach. However, the enacted law does give the CPSC the right to fine for violations as well as criminal and civil penalties. While it is unclear how they will enforce the law, I myself am not taking these sorts of chances with my livelihood.

Everyone must make an informed decision, but PLEASE make it for yourselves.

[Former_Member]

KathleenF,

I really enjoy your Save Homemade and your article on not allowing CPSIA to throw us under the bus was brilliant. Thank you for the work you do, its incredible.

I am in fact new to the business side of selling hand made, the business I was starting was just in the making, though I've sewed/hand embroidered since I was a child [tradition passed down to me, including tatting from my Nana, from the old world]. Then I took it for granted, it wasn't until in my adult years that I learned just how powerful these arts truly are and how precious they are.

I come in from the advocate for worker's side/women's human rights and so I am seeing much of this from a different perspective,

I can't help but believe that this law [with the Orphaned Works Bill] is not just about lead poisoning, there is far more to it and I really can't help but think this is a very strategic and stratified/clever means in nailing the final coffin on Private industry, small industry.

The article on USPIRG was excellent and I will be up tonight doing a cram-session reading, I will also be going through my archives here to see if there was any thing filed with several of the anti-sweatshop organizations/unions that I have worked with in the past,

I know there were several regarding lead/toxin poisoning in labor camps [and I say camps, because that's exactly what they are, a friend of mine went to South America and sent back pictures, all that was missing was the Work for Your Freedom sign]. But anyway these camps were for car parts, parts sold to Walmarts and other stores,

like your drink carriers, things like that. And it was children working in these camps that you could see and smell the toxins right through the pictures, they were that vivid.

The business I was forming was a reconstruct, using used clothing, that yes, would be going to landfills and cutting it up, salvaging it and making items from it with artwork depicting the women/children in various countries, don't think I'll be able to do that now, not for sale anyway,

as I'd still have to have the threads tested, etc. My whole intent however in doing this was to NOT use fabrics, for example that I know have dyes, that children in North Africa, are stirring with their feet, in these huge barrels.

What I find interesting however, is that from what I can read here, those who have contacted fabric stores, all they are required to do is have a certificate, now whether that certificate is From the country where those textiles are made, I do not know, I would presume so, but if so,

that doesn't mean anything. They could still have lead in them, but rather than the fabrics being tested before they wind up in stores, the burden will be put on the small seller/homemade/artist, etc.

Why isn't there some type of lead testing at the customs/where goods are brought in? Before they even are allowed off the dock?

And what about those certificates, it isn't stopping the textile industries in Africa [North, Morocco that I know of] that are forcing children to swim in toxic barrels, or sending those dyes here. And if large corporations can find a way to get those products on the shelves,

who is really protected from these imported leads? This is why I believe there IS something to this that is targeted at crippling small business and the arrogance of some of those who are working for this law, it really shows.

Of what I have gathered thus far just from reading and looking at the products made by the people here,

they take a lot of care in detail and are using many handmade fabrics themselves, some even working with their own homemade dyes.

I showed my children some of the pictures of the products made here, my daughter immediately wanted the dolls shown on one of the big story pages on CPSIA, and I told her, after Feb 10 those dolls won't be able to be sold unless we have about $10 grand,

my son, who is nine, had tears in his eyes. They think this is the most stupid thing they've ever heard of, this law,

my oldest daughter, mentioned to me, that she's spreading the news around to her friends [she's teen] and several of them make/reconstruct their own clothing, their remarks,

the gov could kiss their ass because they aren't walking around dressed like beige vampire Zombies. On with the face paint they go,

and to them, I say, You Go. We yes, want safety and our children safe,

we also want them to have a good quality of life, not uniformed conformity and imprisonment.

Anyway, enjoy your writing and am learning so much reading what you have to say,

janedoethreads

Home Sewers & Needle Worker's Union -- HSNWU

[Former_Member]

I have responded to the Grim...whatever he calls himself...on his blog. Someone let me know and I appreciate your posting that here.

Also the article I did read was not by the ALA, it was actually a news story. Perhaps they got their info from the ALA, but it's erroneous either way.

The law says one thing. It can't be applied the way it is or else it will stomp on a number of rights and probably violate the Regulatory Flexibility Act. I wouldn't be surprised if it were repealed and rewritten rather than amended or regulated to such an extent that it won't even look like the original law.

Thanks, though, I do appreciate your continued work toward making our workforce more informed.

This whole thing is pretty ridiculous IMHO. There have been plenty of laws that have not been worthy of following. Rosa Parks broke the law when she wouldn't move to the back of the bus. I think it was worth it.

[Former_Member]

marking

[Former_Member]

I am new to Etsy and I'm trying to educate myself about this new law. I have read this entire thread (but not the entire law), including the entire PDF document that was posted (http://www.cpsc.gov/businfo/frnotices/fr09/certification.pdf) about certificates of compliance. It sounds to me like (according to this document) only the manufacturers and importers of products will have to provide certificates of compliance with the new law. Does that mean that if we aren't required to provide a certificate of compliance that we don't have to test our products? This whole thing is very confusing...

[Former_Member]

KathleenF says:
"attn: generation tie dye. I can personally assure you grim reader has no connection to PIRG (did you read it?) nor has he never heard of rabbit somebody or other as you claim."

Dude, Rabbithorn's shop name was posted on the blog, for crying out loud.

As for my first post letting her know, my fingers were going at a different post from my thoughts, and I came back and corrected it ASAP. We don't have Edit buttons here, remember? *headdesk*

I'm trying to get information from wherever I can find it. The USPIRG already makes my blood boil on this issue, but I didn't see that the GrimReader post was any more informative than anything I've read here, only there was a lot more contempt. Sure, some Etsy crafters are mis-informed. Most of us are *trying* to be correctly informed. I didn't see a whole lot of "informing" in the GrimReader blog - but I DID see the reference to this thread and the quotes from it.

I know a lot of people are tired of the bull$*^& law and its implications. A lot of people are tired of being told that they're "just mommybloggers," that they're "overreacting" or "underreacting." Tempers are short, and allegations of stupidity are flying in all directions. And lookit me, I get some free publicity this morning!

All this before I even have a chance to drink my coffee. @.@

[littlegirlPearl]

SewHomeMade, the section you are referring to (section 104) is only discussing the registration of durable goods, not the testing, which is described under section 102.

Rabbithorns, I agree in that this law is a piece of garbage, but that still does not exempt me from following it. I am working very hard to get the law amended or repealed. I am sure you are too, but it is quite another thing to tell others not to follow it. Everyone must make their own decisions.

By the way, here is the number for Waxman's office, if anyone wants to call and voice their opinion. Let's keep the pressure on...202-225-3976

[Former_Member]

This thread is great - marking for later...

[handsewn]

thanks rabbitthorn-your op was very informative and settled my nerves.

[Former_Member]

The ALA letter, supposedly written by some Moron, is in direct response to what MS Falvey and other members of the regulating agency have told them about books and exemptions.

Rabbithorns may be a lawyer, but if you read her comments at the Grim Reader's blog, you see that she's not one who has informed herself much about the actual details of this law before counseling all of you to ignore it because it won't matter.

[Former_Member]

LOL - even the lawyers can't agree on this one! That's partly what makes it so scary.

[Former_Member]

Actually Deputy ,I beleive she said that her brother is an attorney. Grim Readers Blog ? sounds a little dreary, think I'll pass on that. Bigger fish to fry at the moment. I almost did a backflip when I read the ALA's website. I think that they are quite upset about this but feel a bunch of alarmed parents may or may not be helpful with this. Whether or not the law itself is responsible, and I'm sure there is some negativity regarding posts of the nature that I posted in this GR blog, I'm wondering how far chaos will get us?

[Former_Member]

Chaos is what we should be addressing. HOW to do that is pretty tough. I've learned so much in a short span of time. Whether or not I over-reacted is a moot point. Again we all have bigger fish to fry such as OK what are we going to do now?

[Former_Member]

bmerry, Rabbithorns said she was a lawyer- in this thread she promised HipMelon to represent her for free if she was taken to court:
"HipMelon, if you get hauled off to court I will represent you for free. (depending on what state you're in - I can't practice everywhere because that's the law...)"

It is true that it's frustrating that lawyers don't agree on some of the details, but from what I have seen, but I haven't seen any lawyer but Rabbithorns saying that the law doesn't apply to small businesses or books.

Pretty much every other lawyer I've read about who has actually read the law is concerned about the wide, sweeping range of this law and various other problems with it. Rabbithorns is pretty much alone in her assessment that there's nothing to worry about.

As for what to do now, I think it's important to get good, factual information (which the Grim Reaper post has, as does the Fashion Incubator and The Smart Mama- both of these people have been meeting with industry groups and lawmakers.

It's important to know why Waxman isn't budging- he's hand in glove with USPIRG and the likes, and they're telling him small crafters do not want to make safe toys and testing is only fifty dollars an item- so inform him and other members of the committee that you've gotten quotes showing testing is hundreds of dollars, sometimes thousands, and that the current testing agencies mostly are not interested in micro-businesses and don't have time for you.
Tell them, if you've gotten the lead testing currently available, that your products ARE lead free, so multiple tests of the same materials on different products is redundant and burdensome, unnecessarily so.

If the flaws in this law are addressed it will only be thanks to people like Kathleen at the Fashion Incubator, The Smart Mama, and commenters here who actually 'over-reacted' by explaining to the lawmakers what is wrong with the bill, the difference between what they claim was intended and what it does (and I think it is outrageously unrepresentative to claim the bill was only intended to cover imports, it clearly is not).

In short, you need facts to know what to do now, and I've seen facts from Fashion Incubator, Smart Mama, and Grim Reader, not so much from the 'don't worry about it' posters here.

[Former_Member]

Deputy, I have gone through the greiving process over the passage of this law. I have a concrete path in front of me to express my fears and disapointment and anger. I will turn this into something positive. I have started a quilt block drive which is described in another thread. It isn't a magic solution. And there is so much to catch up on but I will look at Grim Reader. I thought it was Rabbit's blog.

[Former_Member]

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6013686

Feedback on this is welcome!

[Former_Member]

It's just tough because nobody wants to knowingly sell illegal items.

[Former_Member]

bmerry1, I wrote this on another thread, but I will say it again. I think Etsians really shine when it comes to creative responses, and I love your quilt idea.

I think each source of info has strengths and weaknesses. I do find more misinformation here than, say, Fashion Incubator (I believe this is largely because there are simply MORE voices speaking here, and the more people talk, the more likely some of them are wrong).

I do have to check facts here more carefully than other sources-

BUT... I do get good info here, too, and what I REALLY love about Etsy as a source is the wide range of creative responses- like your quilt idea, the gallery of extinct (or soon to be extinct) products, the colorless toy protest, the send a toy to a lawmaker protest, and others I can't recall off the top of my head. Those alone aren't enough (and nobody argues it is), but I think that it can't help but make an impression and is a great additional voice to those who are writing letters, calling meetings, and visiting Congressional offices in person.

I also love the quick pooling of information here- the letters from CongressCritters (so we could see how they are all cribbing from the same cheat-sheet), the ideas about different people to contact, the sharing of comments from different sources and newsmedia.

[Former_Member]

OH YES, Gotta to love the internet,a woman can bounce a baby on one knee while sending a passionate email to their congress woman or man about what affects us. AND research it if she has buddies to send her in the right direction.

[Former_Member]

Thank you for the feedback, Deputy.

[Former_Member]

Deputy,
If anyone finds out where the August level testing is $50/item (oh and my items are OOAK and sell for about $20 each...so this STILL doesn't help me.)

let us know.

[Former_Member]

We need tshirts or bumperstickers...etc... all in beige.

saying "CPSIA: Beige is the new Black"

and stuff like that.

[Former_Member]

rabbithorns, THANK YOU! every time i read one of these posts i feel a mix of my own panic and feelings of "what if?" and a sense that this law is a long way from being implemented and enforced because of all the kinks.

[Former_Member]

ruthiefromaus
ruthiefromaus says:
Look, I'm a newbie on ETSY (although my daughter, pinklizzy, isn't) but this kind of thing is ... right up my alley, I guess. I think that what rabbitthorns is saying about this situation, has real merit. This law is so new it hasn't even come into force yet. With months to go, small business people in the U.S have plenty of time to press their concerns upon their representatives, legislators etc. Time to get answers. Time to test the limits of the law. Time to make both govt. and public aware of the ramifications of the legislation as it stands.
___________________________________

In case this poster comes back. I see no one has addressed her post.

Just so you know, the law was passed in the middle of last year. It's not "so new" and it is not "with months to go" it takes affect on Feb 10, 2009. Exactly 15 days from now.

We are on good merit a little freaked out about a law that may not be amended before it takes affect in two weeks. Time has all but run out, we are now sitting here in the eleventh hour trying to talk loud enough so the people who can make the changes hear us.